This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
What has always gotten to me is the fact that (apart from their political opinions) they’d be fine even if Trump does every terrible thing they think he’s going to do. They’re white, natural born citizens, pay taxes, and do work that’s useful to the economy. The Nazis would not go after them (with the obvious exception), nor would Putin, Orbán, Duerte, or any other dictators. They’re the kind that such regimes want — educated, good jobs, pay taxes, not criminals, etc. and most of them lack the spine to seriously put themselves out there as against the regime when it stops being a fun LARP. When things get bad, they’ll shut up, scrub their socials, and for their “mental health” stop following the scary news, let alone do anything. Those that intend to fight are doing it stupidly with zero thought to opsec or grey man that it’s would be relatively easy to comb through socials and pick them up before doing anything serious.
I hate to go all Niemoeller on you, but this is not certain.
I mean, yes, if you decide to greet with "Heil Hitler", do not voice any contrarian political beliefs, don't engage in any norm-violating behavior (such as having gay sex, or having a Jewish boyfriend, or having a hereditary illness, pissing off the local Nazi bigwig), don't get killed either in Stalingrad or by an Allied bomb, then you are probably fine (where fine means getting to live through the 3. Reich with your limbs intact, not that you will thrive or still own what you owned before).
The main thing about Trump is that he is not literally Hitler -- there are many more checks and balances in place in the US. But living under Hitler is totally a big deal.
I mean the reason they ever went after Niemoller is that he was outspoken about his opposition to Naziism. There were millions of Germans doing normal German things throughout the 10 years of Nazi rule. Some of them might well have quietly and privately disagreed behind closed doors. The Nazis did not round up absolutely everyone who wasn’t a Nazi. They were after active dissidents, degenerates as they defined them, race mixers, etc. but it wasn’t true that any time someone said something anti-Hitler that the Gestapo would rise up through the floor and ship them off to Buchenwald. Active, ongoing dissent might get you marked. But if you keep your head down and mostly behave, your fate will be to ride out tge war and suffer only the fate of living in a country that th3 allies bombed the crap out of — which everyone suffered.
And that’s why I find the “fleeing white liberal women” so hilarious. First, as I mentioned in previous comments, they absolutely are not afraid of Trump or a fascist state. If they were, they’d certainly be careful about what they’re saying, about telling social media that they were at a protest, tagging themselves and their buddies in photos at tge protest. They’re also, other than being stupid online (again working from the belief that Trump is going to mass deport people to El Salvador, declare martial law, and cancel their social security number making life impossible) completely ineffective. It’s just insane how LARPy and performative the thing is.
As far as leaving the country, again, these spoiled little white future wine moms are not someone that any regime would worry about. Once they realize that it’s getting serious, they’re going to stop. And really, as long as they aren’t actively fighting the regime, there’s no danger. Trump doesn’t like immigrants or LGBT. He’s fine with white women.
Trump is very comfortable with gay men. What little evidence I am aware of shows he doesn't care about trans people.
A journalist asked Trump what bathroom a transwoman would need to use in Trump Tower. He said he doesn't care.
Trump's mentor was Roy Cohn. An interesting guy worth a googling.
More options
Context Copy link
Does Trump "dislike" LGBT? One of my pet peeves is the usage of that term, which I find to be baldly political and rather deceptive in its lumping of so many groups together. Just another subtle linguistic way of saying "straight" or heterosexual behavior somehow puts one in a political camp that isn't "LGBT."
But Trump doesn't seem to have any particular problem with homosexuals, either gay or lesbian, nor have I seen or heard him say anything about bisexuals. Arguably he disapproves of the progressive push of transsexuals in sports, but has he made any statements that he "dislikes" the T?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
One of the first groups the Nazis went after, years before "I dunno, Madagascar?" was taken off the table for the Jews, was other Nazis.
Scapegoats are not chosen based on a rational evaluation on how much their sacrifice will actually please the Gods, they're chosen based on complicated psychological and sociological factors that can be hard to predict in advance.
It also a question about how serious the people are, how likely they are to be effective in thwarting stated goals of the regime, and whether or not you can go after them without causing more harm to the regime than good. On most of these accounts, white PMC women are pretty low on the pole.
They simply are not serious about their resistance. It’s showing up to an outdoor protest theater, wearing merch and carrying signs. Then hashtaging the whole thing for views. What they are not doing? Building resistance cells. Buying weapons. Training for a fight. Hiding illegals in their homes. Practicing OPSEC and building anonymous communication channels, buying burner phones to use during protests. I can come up with dozens of effective resistance tactics that aren’t “livestream myself and all my friends at a protest” and “post I hate Trump” several times a day on social media. Second, im not seeing any move toward doing anything. The protests are a fun afternoon and I’ve seen a lot of bitching about people not having paid time off to go to these events. They’re going to get bored or run out of PTO or Theres going to be minor inconveniences (maybe they use water canons and it’s cold outside, or tear gas, or someone they know spends the night in jail) and they’re going to fade away.
Second, white PMC women tend to be married to high value men who will absolutely object to their wives being imprisoned by tge regime. They are basically walking talking hostage puppies — naturally sympathetic no matter what they’re doing. Headlines about wealthy white women getting arrested and deported is going to cause major headaches for the regime. The face of most sympathy for tge downtrodden stories are women. Mothers crying in Palestine are trotted out any time someone wants people to feel sorry for Palestinians. And Jews, not to be outdone trot out videos of women being kidnapped and raped when they want to convince you that you should support their side. Even in the USA, when you want a sob story about cutting something, there will always be a woman in the center of the story who is now struggling. They deported a Palestinian man related to high ranking figures in Hamas. But you mostly see his crying, pregnant wife.
Trying to determine what liberal white women are thinking about Trump and modern America, I found some fun subreddits.
/r/twoxpreppers is for women prepping for the worst. And supporting each other in their decisions not to arm themselves. Sure, they think we are entering the Republic of Gilead and they will be cattle in a living hell. But, that doesn't justify such extreme actions as buying a gun or in any way preparing for violence. Accusations of LARPing are too common, but these people are actually LARP resistance. Not even trying.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link