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PaperclipPerfector  7d ago (text post)   2302 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 23, 2025

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I went out with some male friends last night, hit up several (PRICEY!) bars in our downtown area.

Saw some small groups of ladies out. A few times I watched a random guy approach and engage in conversation, but they usually disengaged and left after a couple minutes, with no apparent exchange of numbers or anything. So not an obvious or dramatic rejection, but not a success either.

Question: Is "buy those ladies a drink" even a viable tactic anymore?

And if drinks are super fucking expensive ($14+ for a cocktail these days, so buying 3 would run you $50) how could you possibly justify the cost unless you had a legitimately decent odds of success?

Never use this tactic at an expensive bar, especially if it's early in the evening, when it's "pre-gaming" time.

Actually sound advice in any event.

You want to be the closer, not the warm-up before they get really sloshed.

I don't try to meet girls during nightlife any more, but even when I did I would never open by buying a drink (let alone drinks for her friends).

Sometimes I would after we'd already had a 15 minute conversation and I knew the connection was there. It was more likely than not that the girl would buy me one back.

Just don't start off with buying a drink. I've never seen it making a difference and if a girl shot me down for not buying one I would probably have been happy to dodge the bullet.

It is possible to meet girls in a bar. Having any success at doing so is all about stuff like your looks, how they're feeling that night, how funny and interesting you are to them, etc. Offering to buy her or her whole group a drink only works against you, as it makes you seem like a sucker who's too boring to just have a conversation with somebody, and will make you waste the critical first few minutes on boring stuff like figuring out what they want, getting the bartender's attention, placing the order, etc.

If they ask you to buy them a drink, 90% it's this guy is lame, let's see if we can milk him for a free round before we ditch him, and the other 10% is a shit test. It's never in your interest to go along with it.

The bottom line is always, only go to a bar and drink there if it's actually fun for you, regardless of whether there are any girls there or you might stand a chance of getting with them.

As someone with mediocre rizz online dating is still the way to go. Met the current gf and every other girl I've been involved with there with two exceptions, and one of those was a coffee shop cold approach which involved me waiting 4 months for her "tAlKiNg sTaGe" to disappoint her until she used me as a rebound.

I despise the apps with a passion, and ALL online dating sites have gone the tinder route of endless swiping with the occasional dopamine hit.

I'd tolerate it if there was a clone of Old OkCupid where you can actually zero in on the ones that are likely to be compatible. That's where I found the most recent Ex, but its clear they're no longer in the business of giving users control of who they see.

one of those was a coffee shop cold approach which involved me waiting 4 months for her "tAlKiNg sTaGe" to disappoint her

Aaaaand that's WHY I despise the apps. Even if you manage to make a connection IRL, they will still have dozens of digital suitors in line ahead of you, and absolutely ZERO pressure to pick one quickly, especially if they 'catch feelings' for someone in particular and now judge all others by that person's idealized standard.

Also I despise the terminology that's sprung up around the current dating discourse to mask how dysfunctional/unhealthy it is. "Talking stage" aka one of you is probably stringing the other along to maintain optionality (not always, I grant). "Situationship" i.e. you're [something] with benefits but neither side wants to be the first to admit their true motives. "Hard Launch" aka you can't actually be a real couple until its been explicitly announced via social media (yes, I remember the term "Facebook Official," hated it then too). Until then, you're a "Sneaky Link" a/k/a someone they're unwilling to even admit to seeing, often because it'd lower their social status if it were known. Or you give someone "the ick" and they drop you out of nowhere.

Blech. Don't normalize dysfunction with cutesy terms please.

"Rebound" is actually a decent description how that dynamic works, but its still an unhealthy practice imho.

Part of this is me getting older, but I'm also trying, against all cultural pressure, to treat everyone I get 'involved' with as if they're an actual human (until proven otherwise), and try NOT to poison the well for everyone.

Same! I hate those apps and how theyve ruined dating for everyone. Even if yiu dont use them, everyone else is if there was a movement to ban them like how they almost banned tiktok, i'd be a fanatical supporter

In my opinion as an alcoholic barfly who actually worked for the bar for a few years: maybe (in the right bar in the right location, but sure as shit not the bar I worked at), but no. For context, the bar I worked at catered (or at least aspired to cater) to grad students and professors in a college town, wound up being a hangout for retired/nearly retired professionals during happy hour and townie millennials during night shift (This demographic is rapidly aging out of the bar scene to an extent that the bar faces an existential crisis because Gen Z doesn't really drink that much.)

The odds are long, and worsened by the fact that bars are A. sausagefests and B. often skew old in their clientele. The drinks are cheaper at the place I worked at, $10-$12 cocktails, yes, but we also sell $2 PBR pints as long as the distributor doesn't screw up and run out of them, $4 domestics (including Miller Lite and Yuengling pint cans, Budweiser stuff comes in 12oz bottles), and $8 shifties (any domestic plus any well shot; my usual is a Budweiser with a shot of Jameson). You justify the cost because you like drinking and talking, and while getting laid probably isn't in the cards a good conversation probably is. As the millennials age out even the "interesting conversation" part is starting to become questionable.

In my experience young (and especially young and attractive) women rarely come to the bar alone, usually with a friend/spouse or in a group of friends who are having their own conversation and don't want an outsider butting in. There aren't dramatic rejections; you just pick up on the fact that you're not part of the group and that their conversation, game, or whatever was for them, not for you. The rare young woman who does show up alone (usually in-between relationships) will be subject to insane amounts of competition for attention from every single guy aged 21-80. The older guys have the money to buy her drinks and are sexually non-threatening, and thus will win most of her attention.

Very early millennial to Gen X and older women (and men) tend to be way less introverted and more willing to talk. It's hard to pry younger people away from their phones.

Agrees with all of this as a felllow alcoholic barfly. Its getting to the point where i basically assume that any young attractive woman is going to have a shitty personality and be hopelessly addicted to her phone

In my experience young (and especially young and attractive) women rarely come to the bar alone, usually with a friend/spouse or in a group of friends who are having their own conversation and don't want an outsider butting in.

This has been my primary observation. Any woman who is out is always accompanied. Sometimes its by a less attractive friend who can police the men, other times its a gang of girlies who are just out to get some instagrammable moments.

Last night there was a squad of stereotypical 'bros' (zoomer edition) sitting at a table near us. And one (1) lone woman who I assume was one of the GFs.

There was a squadron of girlies wearing matching outfits that were all attractive but very inward facing, and you could read the signs of 'self policing' where none of them were 'allowed' to go talk to a guy even if they had the inkling.

And the one thing you NEVER see is a lone woman, at least not one who stays still for very long.

As a male, you begin to realize is that for the amount of money you'd spend on a night out swinging futilely for a date, you could subscribe to a handful of girls' onlyfans accounts and be GUARANTEED a positive interaction, you'll get to see boobs and cooch if you want, and she'll at least pretend to find you attractive.

The older guys have the money to buy her drinks and are sexually non-threatening, and thus will win most of her attention.

I could do a whole screed on older (and I'm starting to count myself in that number) guys who can just burn wealth and leverage their experience to monopolize a woman's attention, even if he doesn't really want to take her home. The boomers who were raised on "keep women happy and safe" will sometime lavish their oodles of money on women just because she's there.

Which makes the young upstart, with his entry level job and studio apartment (if he's lucky) seem like a loser by default.

And Mr. Boomer will probably blame the guy for lacking confidence or failing to close the deal without noticing how his own presence has changed the very nature of the game.

Sometimes its by a less attractive friend who can police the men

This is your opportunity right there. Since 90% of guys will hit on the more attractive woman, the less attractive one is used to used to her getting all the attention and ends up playing sheriff out of resentment, if nothing else. If you hit on the less attractive one, she feels validated, and the more attractive one is both relieved that she's not the one getting hit on and feels good for her lovelorn friend finally getting some action. And if you start talking to a group of girls, always be prepared to hit on the least attractive one in the group. If this girl is a real dog, then don't necessarily throw in the towel, but have realistic expectations.

Used to be you could bring a reliable wingman for that purpose.

I recently started to explore speed dating events. For those unfamiliar, the way they work is they arrange a number of pairs, and you go through a few ~10 minute conversations (strictly timed) over the next 1-2 hours. You get to mark down your like/dislike per person, sometimes with specific intentions (friends/romantic/hookup) depending on the event, and matches get each other's contact info.

The pros are that the conversations are opt out rather than opt in, and they're one-on-one by design, so the part about the woman's attention is solved. Since she paid her entry fee as well as you did, she's probably not the kind of person to stare into her phone for the entire duration of the time slot, either.

On the other hand, it's still up to you to leave an impression over 10 (usually less) minutes enough for her to reply, even if you end up matching. The women there are also probably not the same as those who go to bars, but that might be a pro for you rather than a con depending on who you're looking for.

Overall, I'd say it beats a dating app in terms of getting guaranteed talking/flirting practice for the same price of a few drinks you'd spend at a bar.

I did go to a speed dating event last year.

Bit of a dud.

Some of the women flaked, so they delayed the start time to call in some pinch hitters.

Even after that the ratio came out to (as I recall) 8 women to 11 men.

3 of the women were single mothers.

Although I can say that the locale was a good spot, I actually liked it enough that I invited a girl I met through the apps out to that spot later on. Date was also a dud, the apps suck.

I appreciate that speed dating events are 'trying' to create a space where it is appropriate to interact with ladies with very open intent, but I still lament the dearth of 'organic' meeting opportunities that are available.

I second this. As long as you have done enough self development on your attractiveness and ability to hold a conversation, speed dating is great. Time wasters are weeded out because its a paid event. The girls are (almost) guaranteed to be single (some organisers give free tickets to their taken contacts to even out the gender ratio).

The time/cost investment stacks up very well compared to the apps. You don't need to spend an hour broken up over a week convincing an app match that you're safe/not boring enough to meet for a coffee.

Worth a try if you're looking for something serious.

I suppose "viable" is subjective, but I'd say it's quite relatively inefficient. Hence why it's been years since I've stopped regularly going out to do nightlife approaches.

One night stands with a ballpark "looks match" (much less looks match+) are rare, even if you're an attractive guy who knows what you're doing.

Suppose we set aside the consideration of buying chicks drinks. You're still sacrificing time, money, and energy to go out to a bar/lounge/club to court-jester and monkey-dance for girls and their friends. And even if you obtain a number after said court-jestering/monkey-dancing, there is no guarantee she'll reply to your text afterward, much less a guarantee she'll agree to and show-up to a date.

Buying chicks and (much less) their friends drinks only makes the deal worse. Pray they do not alter the deal further. It's a form of merriment for girls to see how much time, money, energy, they can squeeze out of guys. "Oh teehee thanks for the drink, but my friends look like they need one too..."

Nowadays, the attractive girls you'll meet in nightlife venues (or anywhere, even on the street, grocery stores, malls, etc.) are also thotting around on online dating sites and Instagram. Might as well just save your time, money, energy sending messages instead of lumbering around a nightlife venue. Especially if your online presence can better leverage female mate-choice copying.

Thats been my assumption, any girl out doing nightlife stuff has a guaranteed 12+ guys in her phone via dating apps and thus maximum optionality.

If you are male model quality or can flash ridiculous levels of wealth you have an in.

Otherwise, you exist in her life only for the exact amount of time her attention is on you.

You can extend that time a few minutes by buying a drink or whatever, but I suspect there's no magic set of words you can utter in that time that will change anything about her opinion of you she formed in the first 10 seconds.

And of course buying drinks CAN signal you're a mark which the more predatory types of women would simply milk as long as possible.

I am amazed how we've seemingly let the behavior or the "bottom" 20% of social actors poison every single interaction the rest of us have.

any girl out doing nightlife stuff has a guaranteed 12+ guys in her phone via dating apps and thus maximum optionality.

Probably but you have to consider the following:

  • Half of the guys she matches with won't ever message her
  • Half of those who do will open with something like "You have a really nice face but it would look much better smashed up against mine".
  • Half of the ones who don't are incapable of texting anything other than "Hey" or "How's your weekend going?"
  • Half of the ones who are capable of texting aren't capable of maintaining a conversation in real life
  • Half of the ones who actually can maintain a conversation can only do so for about an hour before changing the subject to all the nasty things they want to do to them
  • The remaining 1% or so of men, knowing they're in rarefied air, think they're God's gift to women and act like it.

At least this is the impression that I get based on conversations with attractive women I know who have tried it. And that doesn't even include guys who will text for weeks without asking the girl out. So if you meet someone in a bar you can at least speed run to the final step without being burdened by the inherent douchiness that affects guys who are too successful on dating apps.

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