Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?
This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.
Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah that’s fair, I probably did express myself too harshly initially. Probably a better way to frame it would have been, “You have consistently failed to engage effortfully and in good faith with the reasons why people here disagree with you. You haven’t demonstrated a serious approach to discussion.” And in fairness to @justawoman, I did acknowledge that I have had at least one back-and-forth with her which, though I don’t consider it to have been especially fruitful in changing either my mind or hers, at least demonstrated her capability to seriously engage. I think it’s very lamentable that she has elected not to apply that ability to discussions about Ukraine.
I wish you would have begun with your last sentence, because it was touching and moved me. I think you are right that I haven’t been fair about the Ukraine topic; the Bucha massacre moves me deeply, apparently enough to push me out of my wise mind.
I actually had never heard of the Bucha massacre until it got brought up here, and still don't know the details.
I have heard of a lot of massacres over the years, and have expended some effort to not let them move me deeply any more, because I've had the repeated experience of being "moved deeply" by atrocities to support something that turned out to be a disaster. This is not a claim that your reaction is less valid than mine; only an attempt to illuminate a difference in perspective. I would guess that you see being moved by atrocity as a good thing, because it means that the sword of justice will be drawn against the wicked. I see it as a bad thing, because I've seen the sword of justice be drawn against the wicked, only to be swung blindly and stupidly to terrible ends.
The Bucha massacre was the mass murder of Ukrainian civilians and prisoners of war by the Russian Armed Forces during the fight for and occupation of the city of Bucha, compounded by the complete denial of the Russian government. I remember seeing the videos and footage of Bucha as it was happening real time. You should take the time to read the article on Wikipedia and listen to the account of the fourteen year old from Bucha who was raped by Russian soliders. Bucha is one of the primary reasons Zelenskyy wants the territories Russia has taken back because Bucha is happening to them right now and why he is fighting so hard to stop the entire country from becoming Bucha.
I am particularly moved by the Bucha massacre because the Russian propaganda line that that Ukraine faked footage of the event or staged the killings itself as a false flag operation and that the footage and photographs of dead bodies were a "staged performance” is being peddled by my own country, and worse, my own country’s citizens and politicians. After the Katyn massacre, whose biggest problem was Russia’s systematic denial of it until recent times, I struggle with seeing the same thing being repeated and then propagated by the very people against it. I feel like I’m watching the Katyn massacre all over again.
I see disinformation as a bad thing. If people don’t care about the Bucha massacre, that’s one thing, but to deny it happened at all is an appalling level of intellectual dishonesty to me.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link