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Culture War Roundup for the week of February 17, 2025

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Because, again, the woman is giving birth to a child she intends to permanently separate from its mother, to satisfy her own purposes. She’s doing so because she finds “the process of being pregnant and birthing joyful in and of itself” instead of for money but that doesn’t make it better.

I would make an exception if she were willing to truly fulfil the role of a mother for the child in some sort of weird 3-parent relationship, but my understanding is that this doesn’t usually happen.

She’s doing so because she finds “the process of being pregnant and birthing joyful in and of itself” instead of for money but that doesn’t make it better.

I just mean it is not an immense sacrifice to some people that they might only consider because they wanted to get paid or had some other kind of illegitimate gain from it or wanted to pervert the social order in some way.

Some people, friends or family, see a loving couple that can't reproduce on their own and want to help.

Anyway, are you similarly against giving children up for adoption?

What about the people doing the adopting?

I would make an exception if she were willing to truly fulfil the role of a mother for the child in some sort of weird 3-parent relationship, but my understanding is that this doesn’t usually happen.

As an aside, the legal process is quite explicit that the surrogate has no rights to a relationship with the child. And again, it's controversial. People don't necessarily volunteer to strangers they they have done this.

Re: adoption, I discussed in another thread. Please forgive the copy-paste:

Women sometimes give up their children, of course. If they do so out of desperation and in the sincere belief that it will be better for the child, then it’s a tragedy but I understand.

If such a woman does so repeatedly, premeditatedly, knowing in their heart of hearts how each pregnancy is going to end up, then again she is wilfully using her children and abusing her role as a mother to fuel her lifestyle and I believe she deserves to be condemned.

TLDR the stereotypical desperate woman who gives up a child she can’t care for is doing the best she can for the child and I sympathise. Beyond that it depends.

Anyway, are you similarly against giving children up for adoption?

For the most part, yes!

One look at the actually-existing adoption industry will make all the hairs on your body stand on attention. We only look at adoption as something good because historically it implied parents dying a tragic death, and someone else picking up the slack out of charity. There are cases where giving up kids for adoption is understandable, but they're mostly a product of another era, when, for example, a mother could not ensure her own survival, so she'd give up her kid on the assumption someone else could take care of it. Barring such extreme circumstances, this shouldn't actually be allowed, and the only reason we don't means-test it, is that we assume most women have extremely strong maternal instincts, and would do whatever they can to avoid giving the child up.