site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 10, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Strange that an ideology of equality would be named after just one of the two parties it purports to equalize. Anyways.

Can you go into more detail on what you mean by equality? Purely equal treatment before the law? Equal outcomes by specific metrics? A complete eradication of the concept of differences between the sexes? Men and women already have the vote, so I guess that's not what you mean.

Equal outcomes by specific metrics is not equality that’s equity. I don’t know how to elaborate other than “women should have the same political, economic, and social rights as men”. Pure equal treatment before the law? Sure. A complete eradication of the differences between the sexes? I don’t think that’s possible lol, male reproductive health and female reproductive health are radically different to start.

Where exactly does your society not grant equal rights to men and women, then?

I don’t know lol, did I imply I think that? I certainly don’t want what equal rights there currently are to be eroded, like access to contraceptives and abortion, no-fault divorce laws and access to education, so that’s my focus. I can’t think of a piece of preexisting legislation that promotes inequality of men and women off the top of my head other than the draft.

“women should have the same political, economic, and social rights as men”

This right here. Please specify where it applies. Where and in what way do women not have the same political, economic and social rights as men? What the hell does "feminism" as you define it even do? Or is it simply a maximally slim and slippery definition designed to minimize attack surface?

I don’t know, I’m not aware of any legislation in place that is explicitly not that other than the draft. What I do know is what rights there are, like the vote, access to contraceptives, no-fault divorce and access to higher education, I don’t want to see eroded. Feminism, uh…I don’t know what else to say other than “promotes equality”, so what it “does” is say “hey that’s not equal” or “that’s equal”.

So right now all it does where you live is say "that's equal"? That's it?

Yeah...? Where I live, most women are raised socially conservative by their parents. I have yet to see any of them demonstrate any signs of overall contentment in life, and I personally believe it's because of internalized misogyny. In my opinion, in the socially conservative, non-feminist world, being a woman sucks; you're basically a child and men are your parents, and your hopes and dreams are reined in by this silly notion that what makes a woman happy is being a mother. Who can possibly be content believing that about themselves? Feminism reminds women that they are equally capable of being assertive, structured, linear and individual like men, while reminding that men are equally capable of being random, inter-dependent and self conscious.

What do you say to all the studies which find correlation between marriage/children and reported happiness?

Full disclosure: I sometimes argue against them, eg by pointing out that happy people are more likely to get married. But from an opposite perspective to yours: I think men in traditional marriage are, not oppressed, exactly, but too often treated like beasts of burden, expected to do unpleasant work and provide money to women and children, without a right to expect anything in return.

More comments