This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I’m not sure how “race realist” or even “Christian realist” I am. I will say that both groups desperately need an equal seat at the table. This is just simply survival. If the privileges and benefits of civilization are being handed out and you aren’t there, you don’t get any. And being in the majority doesn’t make up for not being at the table. And whites and Christians up until very recently were the ones who told themselves and others in their camps that even thinking about trying to get a seat at the table was horrifically bigoted. This lead to the current open season n both.
You can say the most horrible slanders against whites— they’re monsters, the6 hate everyone who isn’t white, their white cops can’t wait to gun down black people. Likewise, you can say all kinds of terrible things about Christians. They’re backward, stupid, violent, hateful, stubborn. Trying saying anything like that about Islam or Judaism. Try telling people that a religion that forces kids to stay inside a burning school because they don’t have a hijab on is backward, and people will rush to the defense of Islam. Tell them that a religion that won’t allow phones capable of going to certain websites and they’ll defend Orthodox Judaism. Let them hear that Christians don’t want their kids taught trans and queer studies in elementary schools, and it’s all terrible bigotry. Neither group had a seat at the table. And it’s pretty much open season.
Last I checked, progressives were pretty upset about the mutaween and didn't like hasidic judaism when they bothered to think about it.
Look, I think these religions are evil, if not quite as evil as progressivism. I laughed my ass off at the mohammedans who got shot at the mohammed drawing competition and complain at the subsidies for orthodox judaism in a way I don't at the carve outs for the amish. But the idea that progressives are pro-these things as opposed to afraid of criticizing them, and inaccurately believing that Christianity is the same thing for not wanting to bake gay wedding cakes and all that, seems pretty far out.
Progressives are explicitly pro-Islam. They just redefine Islam to be ONLY GOOD THINGS and blame the bad bits of Islam,. Pakistanis systemically raping white children under the encouragement of Imams urging womb jihad, ISIS committing barbarities against other muslims, rmass public sexual assault in Cologne and Tahir square against women (insert endless examples); all of these things are Bad Western Values that innocent muslims absorbed due to the trauma of colonialism and the crusades.
The easy way to see this is observe the media commentary following muslim terrorist attacks in the 2010zs. The Guardian, Slate, Salon, NYT... they all had think pieces about how ISIS was not true Islam, that true Islam was peaceful and should be supported, that all these terrible things were due to the trauma of colonialism. There were even puff pieces about how the Pulse nightclub shooting was not done out of the shooters own declared islamist motives but instead due to his internalized homophobia, and after the manchester bombings there were endless articles about how muslim cab drivers rallied to give free rides to the hospitals for victims, which is particularly funny since it was sikh cabbies who did that.
Contrast that with anything involving a white mass shooter, where active efforts are made to highlight the christian or white character of the shooter, which is normally easy since the Christchurch shooter and Brevik all published their manifestos. Yet Christians have sufficient agency to act on their own declared words, but muslims who kill the kuffR after stating which passages in the quran they are following are simply misled by the depth of their trauma.
Progressives are explicitly pro-Islam, and make every effort possible to whitewash the efforts of muslims themselves to get their intentions publicised. To an extent I will grant that progressives are pro-Islam only out of reflexive opposition to Whites and Christians, but even that was starting to fade as a justicication in the late 2010s, with progressives being pro-Islam without even mentioning Christianity as an opposing point.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link