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PaperclipPerfector  2mo ago (text post)   36539 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 20, 2025

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I think the root of the woke mind virus (and a lot of other mind virii that are in the mix as well) is that we’re essentially an immunocompromised society. There’s no lines in the sand that can’t be crossed. The evils always exist, but we’re the polite people who refuse, on the grounds of “being nice” to say anything about them. The urge to cancel people has always existed, we just don’t stand up to them anymore. There were probably always perverts who want access to children. Now we’ve lost the ability to say “we don’t do that here”. There was always a push to try to get sinecures for our own ethnic, religious, or sexuality tribes, but again, there wasn’t any sense that the rest of us wouldn’t push back. And radical Islam has been pushing through the same gap. They want to impose on us, we more or less don’t want to be rude by saying “no, you cannot do that.” They want to impose their view of the world on us, or to be allowed access to children. They want every child to be taught about Islam, but pushing back is rude. And I think until the West regrows it’s spine and decides that it’s ideas are pretty good and it has every right, not only to teach its own religion, culture, and legal theory in its own country, but the right to insist that people who choose to live here abide those beliefs and systems. No, you may not rape 12 year olds. No, you don’t get to throw people out of work for offending you. No, men don’t get to go into women’s private spaces, especially changing areas. No, you don’t get to trans kids in schools.

And until that part is fixed, until there’s enough spine in the west to be willing to impose its will in its own territories, and do so no matter how many ways the carriers of mind viruses try to brand us as crime thinkers, I don’t see it stopping. I think the west made a mistake in removing Christianity from government entirely. Yes it can be annoying, but if my options are “we’ll arrest you for protecting your children from rape, while teaching them to salute th3 gay flag” or “were all Presbyterians now, and if someone wants to hold office they have to be a confessional Christian,” im signing up on the second one. At least they can tell people to stop stealing, raping, and say no to teaching kids to switch genders while hiding it from parents. At least there’s no reason to think that such a society would go woke out of politeness.

I agree with this as far as it goes. Any thoughts on how to thread the needle between an "immunocompromised society" and a despotic theocracy (like Iran)? IMO, Israel kind of does that, but what's the secret sauce?

The secret sauce in Israel is that the pro-establishment left (in Israel's case, the historically Labour-voting secular Ashkenazi elite) are fiercely patriotic in a way that the pro-establishment left is not in most other Western countries, either because of woke, because of American cultural capture, or (in the case of the UK) both. That, in turn, is probably due to the role of the Holocaust as part of the Israeli founding myth. The pro-establishment right tends patriotic everywhere, and the anti-establishment right almost everywhere, but you need patriotic factions on both sides of the aisle if you want to ensure generally patriotic government.

Israel is in danger of losing its secret sauce because the pro-establishment right (i.e. Netanyahu) is increasingly dependent on the votes of the Haredim (who are functionally unpatriotic because they see the Israeli state as a food animal).

you need patriotic factions on both sides of the aisle if you want to ensure generally patriotic government.

Thanks. This explanation is new to me, at least regarding Israel specifically, and feels plausible.

On the other hand, we can't deliberately subject our nation to decimating attacks by outsiders as a means of forging a shared national identity. Any ideas on how to recreate the effect without the cause?

To be fair, I think the Palestinians help as well. It’s very hard to get a Woke mind virus when you’re surrounded by people who want you dead. The two almost need each other as they’re defying themselves against each other an an enemy unites tribes.

To be fair, I think the Palestinians help as well. It’s very hard to get a Woke mind virus when you’re surrounded by people who want you dead. The two almost need each other as they’re defying themselves against each other an enemy unites tribes.

Agreed. Jonothan Haidt said that historically, shared identity typically springs from some combination of shared blood, shared gods, and shared enemies. The more I thought about it, the truer it seemed, but shared enemies may be the most important of the three. Even with shared blood and nominally shared gods, large societies often fracture and fall into civil war without a shared external enemy. As a famous example, the decline of Rome from a republic to an autocracy in the context of a class war (plebians vs. patricians) was rapid and almost linear over the 100-year period from found 150 BC to 44BC, following what seemed like Rome's greatest triumph: the total, permanent defeat of its archrival, Carthage, in a struggle between two global superpowers. (Sound familiar?)

Being one of the progressive stack's sacred cows probably gave them a layer of insulation. It seems to be wearing thin, but it's there.

Not really. The kind of person who talks about the "progressive stack" unironically has hated Israel since before they knew what the "progressive stack" was.

I disagree about the lack of an immune response, the issue is that wokeness thrives off that immune response. The reason classical liberalism didn't take off virally is the absense of the religious purity culture component. Classical liberalism says "let's all be equal and respect each other and let everyone do what they want." Which is too inoffensive of a message. Wokeness says "you're privileged and inherently a bigot, now pay me for my emotional labor." That's a message that provokes a response. Either you convert, apologize for your original privilege, and accept equity as your lord and savior, or you become an uncouth MRA chud who supplies exactly the examples of oppression that can be used to justify future wokeness.

I disagree about the lack of an immune response, the issue is that wokeness thrives off that immune response.

I don't want to put words in MaiqTheTrue's mouth, but, speaking for myself on behalf of his basic thesis, the problem isn't a general lack of thymos [Greek: spirit; cf. Plato's chariot allegory], but a lack of thymos among the non-woke majority. The woke brigades have plenty of it.

At least there’s no reason to think that such a society would go woke out of politeness.

Presbyterians have totally gone woke out of politeness. So have Episcopalians, Methodists, and mainstream Lutherans.

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