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They move to the whitest POSSIBLE areas though like Pleasanton or Livermore or Palo Alto. There's a lot of areas in the Bay that have lots of Hispanics that middle class white people would never move to if they had a choice. Especially if they have kids. I think you're missing a massive piece of the argument which is that there are literally no all white cities in California and haven't been for decades. But there are massive economic reasons to go there, so they will deal with the diversity even if they don't like it. And when they do move there, if they have the means to do so, will move to the place with the most white people.
And I think you are also forgetting a lot of people on the right hate California and would never move there period.
Exactly. Here's a great blog article on the subject: https://arctotherium.substack.com/p/fleeing-opportunity
Diversity has killed growth because talented people are leaving the most productive areas. Throughout most of history, the opposite was true, with young dreamers coming to Rome, Paris, London, or New York to make their fortune. They still do, of course, but in much smaller numbers.
How bad is it? California has lost millions of citizens to domestic migration despite having by far the best climate and great economic opportunities. Imagine how bad things would be if they didn't have beaches, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley.
It's not all bad news though. Cities are IQ shedders, so in the long run, it's probably better if our best people leave the cities. Bad for economic growth, but good for demographics.
Racial diversity is not even close to the primary reason why most people flee California. The extremely high cost of living, the massive homeless problem, the crumbling infrastructure, the punishing taxation, the piss-poor governance — all of these are far more salient than the number of Mexicans. (And California has a far lower black percentage than nearly any of the states — Texas, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina — to which Californians are mostly fleeing.)
Again, people are not moving to the black areas of those states.
Most blacks in Texas live in the same major cities everyone else does, and these are the ones people are moving to.
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You’re aware that black people can move around outside “their neighborhoods”, right? The neighborhood where I live isn’t heavily black in terms of the people who occupy houses here, but there are plenty of black people when I go to the grocery store, or to various public places. If a school district practices busing or has magnet schools, my children can have black students in their classes, even if we don’t live in a “black area”. Thus, the black percentage of the population is still relevant even if you feel like you can just move to “a white area”.
Yes, of course. People living in majority black neighborhoods move out a lot. It's a good idea for them to do so.
But majority black areas still exist, even if they bleed residents every year. Also, new majority black areas are constantly created as other groups leave.
I’m not even talking about “moving out”. I’m saying that black people, like anyone else, can do all sorts of things outside the neighborhoods where they live. Even ones who don’t move out of their neighborhoods can still cause problems and discomfort for people living in other neighborhoods.
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Cost of living increases are directly related to more migrants and illegal immigrants providing competition for many of the individual costs that go into living (food, energy, housing).
Directly related to the above as well. If the cost of living and competition/pressure on wages wasn't artificially pumped up by immigration, the homeless situation wouldn't be so bad.
i.e. infrastructure that can't support the inflated number of people it is expected to support - once again you can blame migration.
And a lot of that is due to illegal immigration as well.
Directly enabled by immigration. There's no viable right wing path to victory, so there's nothing that cleans out dead weight on the left side of politics. When you don't even have to try to win elections, the selection pressures for leadership consist entirely of pleasing donors and party insiders - as opposed to solving the problems your citizens are facing.
You're right when you say that racial diversity isn't the cause - but you're not really giving a complete picture, either. The costs of massive immigration, which is one of the manifestations of the drive for racial diversity, are all directly related to the list of reasons you gave for people fleeing. You're looking at people fleeing from a burning house and saying "They're not running from the fire, they're running from the heat and the smoke! Look, they're even taking shelter in a building with a fireplace, so it clearly isn't the fire that's making them run."
Texas has very similar demographics and high immigration inflows, with at the very least fewer of these problems than California does. Poor governance is the main reason.
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Not really. Palo Alto gained almost no residents from 2010 to 2020 and is 48% non Hispanic white. Dublin is one of the fastest growing cities in the state and is 28 percent non Hispanic white.
I said possible. There are very few majority white cities in the Bay Area. And when I lived out there, the ones I mentioned were much whiter, but had lots of Asians and Indians moving in like crazy. The demographics were changing quickly. But this is irrelevant to what I was saying because as I mentioned they move to the whitest city possible, not that they move to a white majority city. I didn’t say they moved to majority white cities because those are incredibly rare and out of reach for all but the wealthiest.
I honestly don’t even know what you are trying to say with your comment. What point are you trying to make with this? How is this even relevant? 48% white is about as white as it will get there.
They don't. That's what I'm telling you. Palo Alto, comparatively white, is practically not growing. Almost nobody is moving there. Dublin, comparatively nonwhite, is among the fastest growing cities in the state.
My argument is that your claim has no correspondence to reality and contradicts the data. Do you have any evidence for your claim?
I haven’t lived in the Bay Are in over 10 years, so I thought of random cities known for being white when I was there. And it’s not even debatable that I am right. You can look at maps of cities in the Bay Area and the percentage of white people and they clearly try to congregate and cluster in certain areas. They have a preference to live in the whitest possible cities if they can. This is a clear revealed preference based off demographic data. Otherwise, you would see white people randomly distributed amongst all the cities, which you obviously don’t. Even within cities, there are certain percentages of SF or Oakland that have higher percentages of white people than others. How else would you explain this?
Your claim:
This is a claim about where people move to. The cities growing fastest (i.e. the cities that have the most people moving into them) are rather nonwhite. How does this not, at least to a first approximation, disprove your claim? Perhaps you can argue that all the growth seen in e.g. Dublin and Emeryville is Asians, but you haven't shown that.
So again, do you have any evidence that white people tend to move to white towns? Or is your argument not actually supported by evidence of where people are moving?
https://belonging.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/bayarea_whites_2017_0-0.png
Doesn't really look like that to me. Looks to me that white people avoid the very shittiest parts of the bay, which makes sense since white people have the resources to do this more often than Hispanics or blacks. White people also more frequently live in old money towns like Atherton, but that's clearly not due to whites overwhelmingly moving there, for the simple reason that nobody is overwhelmingly moving to Atherton. And finally white people are more likely to live in rural areas, but again, hardly anyone is moving there.
Are you seriously claiming that white people don’t try to move to whiter towns when possible? Just so I know what you are claiming here. Are you saying white people have zero racial preferences when choosing a place to live? Please state exactly what you are claiming here and what you disagree with.
There are a lot of confounding variables. And again, I said when possible, as in all other things being equal. So please state exactly about what I said you disagree with. It seems to me you are saying whites have zero racial preferences when choosing where to live, so can you please explicitly say that if that’s what you are claiming?
I’m not going to debate your random gish gallops.
There's no gish gallop. My claim is simple and has been, I think, clear from my first post. The whiteness of a town in the bay area is not correlated with how many white people move there. Tons of white people are moving to towns with small proportions of white people. Your claim, that when white people move to the bay area, they move to towns like Palo Alto, is false.
I wouldn't be surprised if whites don't want to move to predominantly black neighborhoods. I would be surprised if they didn't want to move to neighborhoods with a lot of east Asians. And indeed plenty of whites do move to neighborhoods with a lot of east Asians, and fewer move to neighborhoods with lots of blacks.
You are purposely being obtuse. You’re focusing on Palo Alto because it’s your gotcha because it’s a random city in the Bay Area I threw out as the profile of a city white people prefer to live in if they can. Why are you so fixated on this one city?
So just so we are clear: yes or no? White people show zero preference in the Bay Area for living around other white people. That seems to be what you are claiming. Can you say yes that’s what you’re claiming or are you not going to explicitly state what you are clearly insinuating? Otherwise I don’t feel the need to continue a conversation with someone who won’t state yes or no when asked a simple question.
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It is very low non-white Hispanic and black through, which is probably what he means. (10% and 3% respectively iirc! There goes 47% of all the murders!)
Exactly. They are pretending not to know what I am talking about. The cities in the Bay Area with lots of white people will also have lots of Asians so pointing it out is irrelevant. Whites with means clearly have a preference for a certain kind of city.
Yeah you can probably count Asians as white for the purpose of this discussion. They do make things miserable for by importing lots of zero-sum grinding (at least in high school), but obviously that pales in comparison to worse things.
It's not Bay Area, but Irvine (Orange County) is an interesting city.
Originally an orange plantation, it's grown from essentially zero in 1970 to over 300,000 today. It's 45% Asian, 35% white, 12% Hispanic, and only 2% black. They have the lowest murder rate of any city their size in the U.S. Some years they have no murders at all.
Is it any wonder it has grown so quickly?
My grades and my test scores were higher than nearly any of the Asian kids at my high school. Now, in fairness, my school, which was one of the poorest schools in the district, was not getting the cream of the crop of Asian students. Still, at no point did I feel like I had to do any “zero-sum grinding” in order to stay ahead of the grading curve.
Cram schools are nearly universal in China, Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. The fact that you got better grades than some SE Asian kids (assuming from your comment) does not change this. If your school had a significant percentage of high-performing Asians you would not have fared so well unless you also put in the effort.
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53% Asian in Dublin? That's crazy, I don't remember it being anything like that much.
It's even 42-42 white-Asian in Pleasanton too. Guess I was in a bit of a racial bubble.
When was the last time you visited Dublin? There's been a lot of Asians in the tri valley area for some time, and the trends have continued.
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