site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

fire-lighting seems like very low-risk, high-return terrorism, it's astonishing we haven't seen it become more common

Used to great effect during BLM riots. Caused billions in property damage. Arson works, in that sense.

Why do all these outbreaks of mass arson seem to occur exactly when there is historically extreme fire weather conditions?

https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10279345

Are they that competent to plan exactly when the conditions on the fire triangle are perfect and then go out to set fires together?

Same thing with the Canadian fires in 2023. Apparently there was this historically unique epidemic of arsonists setting fires all through the boreal forest even deep into the north country exactly when the climate conditions were extraordinarily prone to wildfire.

There were clear arsons during BLM riots. Buildings burning in major cities that have nothing to do with wildfires in other parts of the US.

There's a video of a burning building in an urban center and an urban youth cutting a fire hose to prevent it from being put out. Crystal clear unambiguous arson.

Yes? Because that's exactly when all the news is going "be careful this weekend, because one match could send the entire state up in flames! Anyone could just go out there with a can of gasoline and choose from this extensive list of high risk areas to incinerate! Smokey the bear says: only you have the sweet sweet power of life or death over thousands!"

Maybe arsons in less-flammable times don't result in newsworthy conflagrations. Nobody cares about the fires that remain small and burn themselves out quickly. During fire-prone times, any arson is liable to become a big deal.

I agree, but this negates what is often used as a point to discredit the claim that climate change plays some role in recent extreme wildfires.

I often point to figure D from the paper I linked, showing that there’s an incredibly tight relationship between annual area burned and atmospheric aridity (measured as vapor pressure deficit).

And in fact, we know very well that increasing continental vapor pressure deficit extremes is a key aspect of climate change.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-51305-w

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016JD025855

I’ve seen a lot of the back and forth rhetoric about the conditions in California right now. One side, it’s climate change! The other, it’s homeless camps who are lighting fires!

All I know is that Southern California is currently experiencing their second lowest winter (wet season) rainfall totals in 150 years of record keeping and then the Santa Ana winds arrived.

https://calmatters.org/environment/water/2025/01/california-rain-drought-north-south/

That drought may or may not be related to climate change, but these type of scenarios almost always have an angle where the climate is playing a primary role, for one reason or another.

Small potatoes compared to what’s possible. It’s like bombing a plane vs flying it into a skyscraper. Imagine you were a patient, clever, and well-prepared terrorist in LA yesterday, how much damage do you think you would be able to cause?

Agreed. This was sporadic and disorganized. Merely riots going a bit further than usual.