site banner
PaperclipPerfector  3d ago (text post)   15292 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

A fire just broke out in the Hollywood hills. Hellicopters are swarming. I expext the authorities to pull-out all the stops to protect Hollywood.

The West coast is a pretty unique climate and biome. We don't have fires like this in the Eastern US, even though parts of the East are incredibly overgrown.

A fire just broke out in the Hollywood hills

Oh no! Now where will I drive my 47 Lamborghinis?

The other problem with fire suppression on the West coast is that no reinvestment was made into the most effective air assets. The most common water bombers you see out West are aircraft that rolled off the production line 60-80 years ago, so they're all either constantly down for maintenance or simply being retired due to a lack of parts availability or simple airframe fatigue.

Even if the polities in those areas wanted to suppress the fires like they did back in the '70s and '80s (back when those planes were still reasonably usable, and when it was policy to suppress said fires as detailed by Dean below) they no longer have the equipment to do this, and now that it's no longer possible to buy a dozen anti-submarine prop planes for pennies on the dollar (designs that coincidentally were very adaptable to a new mission of scooping up water from nearby lakes to drop on the fires) rebuilding that capacity is going to be very expensive.

the most effective air assets

I dunno tbh. I guess if you're paying war-surplus prices everything is more cost-effective, and scooper types probably are the best of a bad lot if you have a suitable body of water around. But neither aerial water or retardant works all that well for the money in heavy fuels or high winds.

Ironically cali is far more overgrown than normal due to all the rain last year. those strong Santa anas dessicate anything even after recent rainfall, then all you need is a spark.

We don't have fires like this in the Eastern US, even though parts of the East are incredibly overgrown.

Here on the east coast, water often falls from the sky without any assistance from humans, which is rare much of the Western part of the country. When it doesn't we do get fires though a lot smaller than out west.

Pine Barrens have some potential, maybe: https://archive.is/ZdeSh

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats