site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   2731 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for December 27, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

1
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

because you can't pay for iCloud in Russia

Here's the source of the problem. If you live in an anti-civilization country, don't be surprised some Western civilization things are not working for you. It may be not your personal fault and you may not have another choice, but that's the problem and everything else is downstream from it. Apple and Meta products aren't built to cater for users that live in anti-civilization countries and never will be, and it's not reasonable to expect them to. Your choice is using R-Fon and Vkontakte or suffer what you must.

Amazing, imagine believing the West as it stands is “pro-civilization” at the same time Russia is engaged in the process of actually constructing a civilization-state.

I am not sure what exactly Russia is constructing (a fascist empire would be a good general description but it lacks specific details) but it has very little to do with what we understand as Western civilization, and it is ideologically opposed to it. You can call it "civilization-state" in the meaning of its own, peculiar to that state, civilization which is built on the principles alien to the Western one, and that's exactly my point.

Here's the source of the problem. If you live in an anti-civilization country, don't be surprised some Western civilization things are not working for you.

I don't think this is true at all. The problem here is that Apple doesn't have a reasonable option to transfer everything to a new device locally.

The last few times I've gotten a new Android phone (Pixel), it's come with a USB-C to USB-C cable (with a C-to-A adapter for chargers) and simple instructions to connect 'em directly, unlock the old one, and agree to transfer everything. Admittedly it missed quite a few apps the first time, but the most recent time things almost entirely Just Worked. I think they may have wireless or cloud options there too, but the cable was simple.

Although the security-minded have complained about some of the changes in, specifically, Google Authenticator over the last few years to support this.

Yep, I've had the same thing. There's no reason Apple can't do this, they just choose not to.

Samsung uses the same method.

And the reason they don't because it's only needed when you can't use iCloud, and you can't use iCloud when your country is debanked for starting a war. I don't know how Apple's internal project management works, but I suspect a task "make data migration work if my country is under sanctions" is not very high on the list.

Yes, single player games requiring online connection is just another part of sanctions against Russia. And by the way, if Apple does not have something, this means no sane person would need it at all.

No, the reason they don't is because Apple is a shitty company who tries to lock you into their walled garden as hard as they can. It is mind-bogglingly stupid to use the Internet to transfer data between two physical devices which you have right in front of you. Any sensible person would default to using local wireless (if you insist on no wires), or just connecting a USB cable. This is 100% Apple's fault for doing data transfer in the stupidest way possible.

I bet they work fine in Saudi Arabia, Rwanda and Zimbabwe. America leverages its technology and its economy to destroy its perceived enemies. And it doesn’t give much of a damn what the rest of us in ‘Western civilisation’ think. Although I agree with you that some level of autarky is probably the way forward.

Saudi Arabia (I mean the royal family) are huge friends of Western civilization. That's like their entire survival strategy, has been for decades. They took major part in US-USSR proxy war if Afghanistan, for example (on the US side), and many other projects too. They may have very distinct customs internally, but they never positioned themselves as being in active existential opposition, quite the reverse. As for Rwanda and Zimbabwe, I have no idea what works there and probably nobody cares either.

America leverages its technology and its economy to destroy those it disapproves of.

"Disapproves of" is the big lie here. America may disapprove of a lot of things, but the problems with Russia are way, way beyond "disapproval". That's the country that a) started a hot war in Europe and b) pretty much declared itself as an the eternal strategic enemy of the Western civilization. I think they don't have much platform to complain some Western things are working less than smoothly there. And no, not being able to easily copy information from one American iphone (which you can still buy) to another American iphone (which you can still buy) so that you can use an application created by American company, is not properly described as "being destroyed by America". In no world, in no universe, in no circumstance it is.

it doesn’t give much of a damn what the rest of us in ‘Western civilisation’ think.

Most of Europe, except some folks being directly paid by Russia and some folks who proclaim their love of Russia out of stupid contrarianism, aren't exactly in love with Russia either. Those who border it very much aren't. And, the position in existential opposition to the West is the official Russian doctrine, so there's no matter what Luxembourg really thinks about it, it's what it is.

What puts a big bee in my bonnet is the way American right-wingers casually throw around terms like "anti-civilisation" and "Western civilisation", using them apparently interchangeably with "anti/pro American strategic interests". "Western civilisation" insofar as it means anything was a product of Greek/Roman paganism, Byzantine/European Christendom, German universities, French, Russian, and British thinkers, with America coming in very late in the game.

Saudi Arabia are certainly American allies (and Britain, probably other European countries). That's not the same thing really as being 'pro Western civilisation'. As you note, their internal customs are very different.

[Russia] started a hot war in Europe

That is Western civilisation! In practically its purest form! I'm not just being flippant here: the idea that going to war in Europe is incompatible with being a western civilisation dates exclusively from the end of the second world war and is therefore inseparable from the time when America was undisputed ruler of the globe. Disputing this principle doesn't make you "anti-civilisation" but it does make you an enemy of the American-led global order.

pretty much declared itself as an the eternal strategic enemy of the Western civilization

As above. Putin actually leans into a lot of Christian elements and mythologising about Russia's place in old Europe (and therefore implicitly Russia's place in "Western Civilisation"). It has declared itself an enemy of American-led alliances and global institutions because it feels (correctly in my opinion) that those alliances and institutions were created and maintained with an eye to permanently upholding American global supremacy.

So if we rewrite from "Russia is the enemy of Western civilisation" to "Russia is the enemy of American-led global supremacy", then the question becomes "how much should iPhone, Github etc. functionality be tied to American strategic interests"? And "they shouldn't, they're consumer products or global infrastructure" seems like a perfectly valid answer to me.

Most of Europe, except some folks being directly paid by Russia and some folks who proclaim their love of Russia out of stupid contrarianism, aren't exactly in love with Russia either.

No, and quite rightly. I'm not actually keen on Russia's behaviour myself, all contrarianism aside. But I don't for a moment believe it would make a difference if we were. America is never going to shrug and say, "well, I guess the majority of Western civilisation is okay with this, we're not anti-civilisation so we'll follow your lead". The relationship between America and "Western civilisation" is strictly one way. When Germany didn't commit sufficiently to the anti-Russian alliance by continuing to buy the gas that was maintaining their economy (and thus, again, "Western civilisation") America expressed its disapproval in no uncertain terms. I personally believe they assisted or overlooked Ukraine in destroying the Nord stream pipelines and therefore participated directly in crippling "western civilisation" for the foreseeable future.

using them apparently interchangeably with "anti/pro American strategic interests"

That's nonsense. Having war in the middle of Europe is not German or Polish or British or Spanish or Greek or any other European interest. Russian imperial plans is not "American" problem, it's the problem for everybody who is part of what we call "Western civilization".

That's not the same thing really as being 'pro Western civilisation'.

True. They are allies. That was my point.

Putin actually leans into a lot of Christian elements

Of course, Russia's ideology has always been that they are the "true" Christians and all the non-eastern-orthodox Christians are heretics, and thus taking over Byzantine inheritance and serving as sole protector of the Christian faith is the Russian destiny, thus it's called the "third Rome". Putin invented nothing here, he just reheated the policies of Russian Empire. Of course, this implies inherent conflict with the West, who also considers itself the continuation of Greko-Roman civilization - they are the fakes, and Russia is the true heir, so until they recognize this fact, there can be no peace (though there could be some temporary tactic armistices and alliances, of course).

"Russia is the enemy of American-led global supremacy"

Again, nonsense. Russia is the enemy of the EU as much - likely more - as America. Of course, if you want to go back to the Holy Roman Empire, maybe Russia isn't the enemy of that, but it's the enemy of everything the Western civilization is now, and not just tactically, but strategically - at least until it abandons the "third Rome" ideology, which definitely won't happen while Putin is alive.

I personally believe they assisted or overlooked Ukraine in destroying the Nord stream pipelines and therefore participated directly in crippling "western civilisation" for the foreseeable future.

You can believe whatever you like, but some German politicos being bought by Putin is not really a sign that Europe wants to submit to the glorious Russian empire. Some politicians, sure, would like a share of Gazprom billions, no doubt about it. But those politicians don't represent much beyond their own greed.

Being friendly with Russia is hardly a niche position in Germany. After 3 years of non-stop concerted media propaganda that even US mainstream anti-Trump consensus pales before, current polling still puts parties that are explicitly for leaving the American-led consensus on supporting Ukraine (AfD, BSW) at around 24%; and 41% say financial and weaponry support and 19% say sanctions against Russia are "going too far". Before the war and attendant propaganda, in early 2020, in response to US sanctions, 55% said that Nord Stream 2 should enter operation "no matter what, despite current conflicts with Russia". It looks less like German politicos were bought by Putin and more like Uncle Sam was being too stingy to buy them for once.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats