This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
OK, so I don't bring my dog to grocery stores or other places where the norms would suggest not doing so, but I do want to give you my gut response to the question anyway:
I don't care that you don't like dogs. I don't think you're evil for it, but I do think it's a sign of uptight neuroticism. My dog is a shy yellow lab that never barks outside her own home. She walks directly at my side and doesn't approach strangers. If someone was afraid of her, I wouldn't deliberately inflict her upon them, but I also think it is absolutely just their problem. If, for example, I was at a bar patio and someone was bothered by her presence, I would say that it's entirely incumbent on them to go somewhere else - the dog is normal and pleasant, the anti-dog guy is the unreasonable party, and that's up to him to act accordingly.
I'll agree that there is an annoying fraction of dog-havers that think their dog belongs everywhere. The flip side of this is that I've seen people on local Reddits whining about dogs on patios because they have allergies or they're scared of dogs. I am not at all inclined to accommodate their delicate systems and sensibilities.
To ascertain your exact position, here's an example situation.
X and Y are total strangers who are walking along the same road (largely-untrafficked gravel road with no footpath; they're walking on the road itself) in opposite directions. X has a dog off leash, Y has another human walking with him. When X and Y reach, oh, fifteen metres apart, the dog breaks off and charges Y. Y waits for the dog to get close, then hooks a foot under the dog's belly, lifts it into the air, and throws it away from him (all with the same foot i.e. it was scooped up on the front of the ankle and inertia held it there throughout the movement). Dog lands with no damage and returns to X. X yells at Y for "kicking my dog". Is X justified?
More options
Context Copy link
I don’t (obviously) think it’s uptight neuroticism. I don’t like barking, I don’t like dog hairs getting everywhere, and I don’t like the smell. Those all seem like reasonable non neurotic reasons to dislike dogs.
More options
Context Copy link
Sure, I’m in agreement with you about your dog, taking at your word her behavior training and socialization- I used to have a chocolate lab who was much the same, and bringing her to a restaurant patio was a fun thing to do in the spring that didn’t hurt anyone. But many dogs in public are not nearly so well behaved, and this is a major problem for bringing dogs in public.
I absolutely don’t give a crap about the tender and delicate sensibilities of people who are bothered by dogs in a space. But there are often legitimate issues caused by those dogs.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link