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Culture War Roundup for the week of December 16, 2024

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I mean, the right wing normie answer is ‘people like that don’t belong in Europe’. And when pressed on ‘people like that’ they’ll eventually come down with ‘Arabs’ or ‘children of Muslims’.

As far as what his motivations are, I’ll point to A) him almost certainly having screws loose(see the mass murder, and also being a psychiatrist) and B) it’s entirely possible he doesn’t make much distinction between Christianity and Islam and just hates theists. Stranger things have happened. There was a mass shooter in the US who seemed to have new atheist motivations as well; it’s not an everyday occurrence but it’s happened at least once.

B) it’s entirely possible he doesn’t make much distinction between Christianity and Islam and just hates theists.

These Christmas markets are not theist occurrences in any meaningful way, and as he had been in Germany a long time he would know it. In fact, many of them have been renamed to Winter markets to be more inclusive (to the disdain of the defenders of the Christian Occident), and there is nothing specifically Christian about drinking Gluehwein, eating all kinds of food from food booths and shopping for overpriced small presents in the other booths. It would be like going after Coca-Cola for being Christian given that the central figure of Christmas is Santa Claus and ad spots by Coke have shaped the public image of Santa.

I mean I think it’s culturally Christian in the sense that Christians is specifically Christ’s Mass in the origin of the name. And almost all the trapping can ultimately be traced back to Christian stories and practices. Santa is a repackaged St. Nicholas of Myrna (who actually punched Arius in the face at the council of Nicaea) who was generous with the poor. The Christmas tree is seen as a symbol of Christmas and the star comes from the magi seeing the Bethlehem star. It’s a holiday with a lot of secular trappings, bu5 it is based in Christianity and in no other religion. I don’t think he could have plausibly mistaken it for a Jewish or Muslim thing, as those groups don’t celebrate any of Christmas.

I think that European Christmas, like Easter, is actually a syncretism of early Christian traditions and pagan ones. The barn with figurines of Joseph and Maria and the magi is obviously based on the bible, while the date (Winter solstice) and the Christmas tree (as a symbol of something visibly being alive in the depth of winter) seem pagan-ish to me. Likewise Easter: remembering the crucification and supposed resurrection of Jesus is one thing, but the rabbits and eggs seem pagan to me -- after all, Jesus died for mankind's sins, not to restore fertility to the natural world.

My point is though that while of course being based on vaguely Christian traditions, this is way removed from the reality of Christmas markets.

An Jihadist terrorist targeting German Winter/Weihnachts markets to specifically strike a blow against Christianity feels roughly like a Persian terrorist targeting the Winter Olympiad in Salt Lake City to strike a blow against the Athenian League -- I could see their path of reasoning, but still think that either terrorist would have some fundamental misconceptions about their enemy.

The barn with figurines of Joseph and Maria and the magi is obviously based on the bible, while the date (Winter solstice) and the Christmas tree (as a symbol of something visibly being alive in the depth of winter) seem pagan-ish to me.

The date of Christmas is actually based on philosophical beliefs about great men dying on the same day they were conceived, plus math(Good Friday actually has a known date if you take the bible completely literally- March 25 33 AD). And Christmas trees probably have a real origin of 'it's one of the few things that looks nice that time of year, and Christmas is a major religious Holiday so we want decorations to look nice'.

Likewise Easter: remembering the crucification and supposed resurrection of Jesus is one thing, but the rabbits and eggs seem pagan to me -- after all, Jesus died for mankind's sins, not to restore fertility to the natural world.

Rabbits might be an unrelated folk tradition(but it also might just be seasonal associations- right around Easter is when you start seeing rabbits in Europe), but eggs come from fasting rules in the medieval church. Easter was a huge feast in the throw-a-giant-party sense in the days when Lenten penance was quite a bit more rigorous than it is today, and foods which were forbidden during lent but otherwise part of the diet were a big part of that. Eggs are one example- I believe that in Eastern Orthodox cultures which forbid dairy during lent, butter or cheese plays a role in Easter celebrations. Of course eggs are also easy to decorate and play fun games with.

The muslim angle is overrated. People wouldn't have been happier if the migrants were christians from Ethiopia. Muslim at this point means non Asian, non white immigrant. Islam is just an easy and relatively politically correct term to use. The basic premise holds regardless if he was muslim, Christian, athiest or Zoroastrian, MENA migration doesn't work in Europe.

The same people would not have been any happier to take South African Zulus but would have gladly taken South Africans of a Boer persuasion. Trying to own AfD by pointing out the specifics of a Saudi's religious beliefs isn't going to work because the AfD voters don't want mass immigration from MENA regardless of religion.

Yes they would have. They wouldn't have been perfectly happy but they certainly would have been happier. Islam obviously isn't the only issue but it is a fairly major one.

Indonesia is the largest muslim country. They would probably be less disliked as immigrants than christians from Zimbabwe.

Religion isn't the only thing that matters but it is important. Would people have been happier if Syrian Maronites or Sunnis came when the civil war started? Or what about Christian Zimbabweans or Muslim Mozambicans?

There are functionally no Maronites in Syria. There were, however, quite a few Melkites, a different tradition.

Eh, I think Maronite and Coptic immigration is mostly pretty uncontroversial in the societies to which they migrate.