site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 9, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The only BASED solution is to represent all time as the number of seconds from the beginning of the UNIX epoch.

What time is your party?

Answer: 1734224199.

Seriously, though, I love Donald Trump doing stuff like this. For years (decades?) NPR types have written lazy think pieces calling for the abolition of DST. It's just pure candy for the midwits. And now Trump is going to give it to them, good and hard.

Normally I would expect some loser journalist to write a story with the title "here's why DST is good, actually". But I don't think we will get one. I don't think they even believe their own bullshit anymore.

This would make "there are roughly pi gigaseconds in a century" an actual useful fact.

Vernor Vinge and his metric time, using orders of magnitude. How long is 10^4 seconds? Fifteen minutes less three hours.

Fifteen minutes less three hours

*Three hours less fifteen minutes (imagine "less by")

Also, obligatory reminder that binary is better than decimal

The fact that Unix time is based on UTC, which observes leap seconds, and not TAI, which is monotonic, is IMO a pretty poor decision. It's not "the number of seconds since the epoch", it has weird jumps and skips.

This matters little since leap seconds will be abolished in the medium term and the difference between UTC and TAI will simply be a constant.

And noon will never be noon as UTC drifts away from solar time.

Do views on leap seconds in UTC (among people geeky enough to care) line up with views on DST in ways which reflect the underlying logic of "noon is noon"?

In my experience, the few folks that care about "noon is noon" (say, those aligning telescopes) already aren't using UTC because the second granularity of leap seconds isn't good enough, and the statement is only true for a single meridian within your time zone anyway.

For example, almost all satellite navigation (also used for time synchronization of local clocks) uses monotonic time on the backend.

It won't necessarily drift very much away from solar time.

On 18 November 2022, the General Conference on Weights and Measures (CGPM) resolved to eliminate leap seconds by or before 2035. The difference between atomic and astronomical time will be allowed to grow to a larger value yet to be determined. A suggested possible future measure would be to let the discrepancy increase to a full minute, which would take 50 to 100 years, and then have the last minute of the day taking two minutes in a "kind of smear" with no discontinuity.

Hey, programmers have to stay employed somehow.