site banner
PaperclipPerfector  20d ago (text post)   30957 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 2, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

People can complain about the bitcoin not being a currency because it's transaction capacity is too low. Or that it lacks the easy of use that cash has.

Bitcoin isn't a currency because it's wildly deflationary. A $300K mortgage in ~2012 bitcoin would presumably mean the holder now owes a value equivalent of $3 billion. Would the value be pegged to whatever it was when the mortgage started, so back then you "owed" whatever, 30K bitcoins and now you owe 3?

At this point much of my hatred of bitcoin is fueled by resentment and a shitty education that didn't include things like "hedging one's bets" and "EV," but I thought it was a stupid idea then and a stupid idea now. I undervalued how much alpha there will always be in betting on stupidity.

Bitcoin isn't a currency because it's wildly deflationary.

My objection is that you just defined "deflationary" in terms of its U.S. DOLLAR VALUE.

Bitcoin is Deflationary due to the fixed supply and the halving rate of release over time, regardless of what its value vs. the dollar does.

But a mortgage taken out in 2012 Bitcoin would mean the holder now owes the same amount of BTC w/interest as they did before.

The holder of the note isn't exactly in a good position either, since their remedy for failure to pay is to foreclose on the house, and they ain't getting that 3 billion.

Ok but that’s just what deflation means- the value of the currency went up by more than the value of the asset.

Yeah, but you're using a second currency to denominate the value of the asset. Not the currency it was actually purchased in.

I mean, there is no shortage of people telling stories about wishing they hadn't spent their bitcoin on weed back when BTC was less than $100. All the same it seems who whom the whole way down. Yeah, it sounds absolutely retarded to borrow bitcoin to buy a house, and then attempt to pay it back in bitcoin. It also sounds retarded to try to store wealth in a currency that will be worth less than 1/10th what it was when you first earned it over the course of your working life. If you are lucky!

There is no single foolproof solution to this problem, and many false paths. Most people give up and accept that they'll be on the job until they drop dead. Can't blame people for making an attempt to escape.

This math on inflation is super wrong. 1.02^50 is about 2.6. 1.03^50 is 4.4. What inflation rate do you suggest is normal?

Pull up an actual historical inflation calculator. 1973 to today shows, 51 years, shows about 7.5x inflation, not 2.6 or 4.4. Turns out a few really bad years every now and again really compound.

And I make no proposition about what rate of inflation is "normal". Because nothing about how inflation is created follows any sort of natural law. Its man made and manipulated from top to bottom. What is normal is desiring the value you derive from your labor to not be virtually wiped out over the course of your lifetime.

Fair point on actual inflation, but 1/10th still seems like a major overstatement of what "will" happen (especially because 50 years is also a pretty long assumption for a career). More broadly, inflation is more or less inevitable for a healthy economy; someone keeping their money in cash under a mattress is just very foolish to not put it into an asset like bonds, stocks, gold, real estate, bitcoin, etc.

someone keeping their money in cash under a mattress is just very foolish to not put it into an asset like bonds, stocks, gold, real estate, bitcoin, etc.

Sure, but what is a foolproof strategy that doesn't require a financial advisor to utilize all those assets to preverse the value of your labor? And why is bitcoin obviously worse than gold, bonds, stocks or real estate? None of those are foolproof.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats