This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I'm going to push back on the assumption that nurse practitioners, or even registered nurses, tend provide worse care than doctors for most patients. I want something more than an impression of anecdotes--preferably actual studies--because in my circle complaining about getting misdiagnosed made by doctors is a well-honed pastime.
I dig your take that those born to the PMC class who strive for Doctor status don't downgrade to nursing. In my experience, nursing Bachelors programs are still very competitive, and there are plenty of children of PMC that go into it (heck, I know a few). These are young women (for the most part) who like to work with people, who like clearly meaningful work, who are not put off by the prospect of hard work, and who by-and-large aren't strivers.
Nursing Bachelors programs also draw plenty of (mostly) women from the working class--because it's clearly meaningful and hard work that's well-renumerated--and only the smartest and most conscientious tend to make it into--and then through--the competitive Bachelors.
It therefore seems to me that there is a positive selection for a combination of conscientiousness, intelligence, and willingness to work hard. So without looking more into the data on the subject, I predict that a study comparing rates of misdiagnosis would be similar for Nurse Practitioners and Doctors, and probably not much worse for Registered Nurses.
Especially if the study counts the final diagnosis of the system rather than the initial diagnosis: a good Registered Nurse can look at a first-time patient, say "I think it's anxiety, but since I am not certain, so please wait while I consult with the Doctor on staff", and that may be the right call when the Doctor then identifies it as a blood clot. A good diagnosis by Registered Nurse should be "I know it's this" or "I need to send it up the chain of specialization".
(My thanks to @ToaKraka for posting earlier the info on what various nursing type professions require.)
More options
Context Copy link