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Culture War Roundup for the week of November 18, 2024

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if the 'consequences of a bad decision' include extralegal violence, protecting people from it is one of the most fundamental functions of society, and protects you from somebody else deciding that some aspect of your life-style is a 'bad decision' that they are entitled to assault people over.

Donno man, there are a million 'bad decisions' a guy can make in a bar that will 100% get him beat up -- wearing a dress probably isn't even top 50.

And yet somehow society, while it will sometimes intervene if the aggressor is too hard to ignore -- mostly treats barfights over dumb shit as plus-or-minus consentual, and the response trends in the direction of 'even less than if you report your bike stolen'.

That seems incompatible with 'fundamental function of society' -- maybe you meant to say 'protecting women from extralegal violence?'

...there are a million 'bad decisions' a guy can make in a bar that will 100% get him beat up....

...society ... mostly treats barfights over dumb shit as plus-or-minus [consensual]....

Yes, I am aware that there are many ways in which our society fall short of perfection.

If Adam and Bob get into a bar fight, with Adam being the first to escalate to physical attack, then Adam not being charged with assault does not mean that Bob was not wronged, any more than a lack of response to Charles stealing David's bicycle means that the bicycle in question was Charles' property all along.

(Although I could see the case for dismissing charges against Adam if Bob had referred to Adam's ethnic group as 'cockroaches', or called Adam's disabled relative a 'useless eater' or a 'life unworthy of living', or accused Adam of some grave act of moral turpitude such as sexual assault against an infant; but anything short of that....)

if the aggressor is too hard to ignore

...which includes any instance in which the aggressor is substantially stronger, or arranges to have a half-dozen friends when the victim is alone. (If it is two people of approximately equal strength inflicting approximately equal damage on each other, one could make the case for limiting the societal response to a sternly-worded "Don't. Do. It. Again.".)

maybe you meant to say 'protecting women from extralegal violence?'

No, when I said 'people' I meant 'human beings.' The principle¹ that Alex should not be obligated to follow the demands of Bob the Random Nobody merely because Bob happens to be stronger than Alex does not depend on Alex's gender.

¹A principle originally dating back to at least the Bronze Age, even if inconsistently applied.

To bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, so that the strong shall not harm the weak."

-- Code of Hammurabi.

(Although I could see the case for dismissing charges against Adam if Bob had referred to Adam's ethnic group as 'cockroaches', or called Adam's disabled relative a 'useless eater' or a 'life unworthy of living', or accused Adam of some grave act of moral turpitude such as sexual assault against an infant; but anything short of that....)

So it's all who/whom after all. If Bob does something you find offensive, Adam is excused for hitting him.

which includes any instance in which the aggressor is substantially stronger, or arranges to have a half-dozen friends when the victim is alone.

Sure doesn't -- first-hand observation here. I'm talking about 'kicking a guy in the head just a cop happens to round the corner' or something -- I've seen both of your examples happen IRL (first one way more than once) and if anything there's even less sympathy for the 'victim' who did something (non-violent) that everyone knew would spiral into a fight with somebody way way bigger and tougher than him.

You moron. Why would you do that?

is the approximate response of everyone from bouncers to cops.

The principle¹ that Alex should not be obligated to follow the demands of Bob the Random Nobody merely because Bob happens to be stronger than Alex

That's not what we're talking about here though -- we're talking about Alex doing something dumb, which he knows will insult or otherwise rouse Bob's personal ire. And doing so in a masculine environment.

This has consequences -- every man knows it, whether or not he will admit it and/or try to hide behind other dudes with guns.

(interesting principle though -- does it also apply to the actions of crybullies who are much weaker than their victims, and yet still issue demands expecting compliance?)

A principle originally dating back to at least the Bronze Age, even if inconsistently applied.

I doubt it, actually -- men fight each other over slights real and imaginary, whether you like it or not -- it dates well before and after the Bronze Age, and up until very recently if they punished everyone guilty of that there'd be nobody left to bring the grain in and whatnot.

everyone knew would spiral into a fight

And then the poltergeist shows up and plates start flying out of the cabinet!

Fights start when someone chooses to attack someone who has not attacked them. Society has an interest in getting them to make better choices.

You moron. Why would you do that?

is the approximate response of everyone from bouncers to cops.

And it is every bit as insensitive as asking a woman who has survived a sexual assault 'why she was dressed that way'.

The principle that Alex should not be obligated to follow the demands of Bob the Random Nobody merely because Bob happens to be stronger than Alex

That's not what we're talking about here though -- we're talking about Alex doing something dumb, which he knows will insult or otherwise rouse Bob's personal ire.

Which, if taken as licence for Bob to assault Alex, allows Bob to impose demands on Alex by becoming personally irate if his demands are not followed.

And doing so in a masculine environment.

Which is why 'masculine environments' are increasingly frowned upon by many of the institutions of society.

(interesting principle though -- does it also apply to the actions of crybullies who are much weaker than their victims, and yet still issue demands expecting compliance?)

Yes. We have a system for establishing a policy of "Do not do $THING or There Will Be Consequences." The Legislative Branch passes a law against $THING; the Executive Branch takes necessary action if someone does $THING anyway, and the Judicial Branch makes sure that $THING isn't something one has a right to do (such as 'voting while black' or 'printing a column questioning Professor What's-Xir-Face of the Department of Oppressed People Studies's opinion on the best way to oppose racism').

If the government votes that $THING should remain legal, or the courts find that $THING is a civil right, it is not generally appropriate to turn around attempt to impose Consequences for $THING on one's own initiative, especially if $THING, to quote Jefferson, "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg", because that way lies madness.

People have spent thousands of years moving us up the entropy-slope, from a world in which the strong can do whatever they feel like and expect the weak to cater to their whims, towards a world where The Rules Are The Same For Everyone; they do not appreciate attempts to shove us back down into the abyss.

Civilisation began when the un-fittest decided that they would like to survive too.

--Jon Stewart

men fight each other over slights real and imaginary, whether you like it or not -- it dates well before and after the Bronze Age

Which is why we have laws against it. Seldom do people make laws against things that nobody does anyway.

and up until very recently if they punished everyone guilty of that there'd be nobody left to bring the grain in and whatnot.

In which case one approaches the problem by degrees -- prosecute the man who becomes violent over a tiny slight before the man responding to a more serious insult; prosecute the man who attacks someone smaller than himself before the man who picks on someone his own size, &c.

As the more egregious incidents decrease in frequency, one can establish stronger standards, and move the Overton Window in the direction of "use your words, not your fists.", or in some cases (things which don't affect anyone else) towards Tim Walz' Golden Rule.