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Culture War Roundup for the week of October 21, 2024

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Yes, the blowback against AI art seems to me a little insincere.

It's not.

The best way to understand people on the other side of a culture war issue is to start from the assumption that they really do genuinely believe what they say they believe.

Cynically, it's artists being sore that their highly developed skills can suddenly be near-replicated by a computer in 15 seconds.

Sure, that would upset anyone. But there are also many non-artists who don't like AI art. Also, people who have objections to AI painting also tend to have objections to AI music and AI voice acting, even if those areas don't overlap with their personal skill set. Which is evidence that the objections are principled rather than merely opportunistic.

The best way to understand people on the other side of a culture war issue is to start from the assumption that they really do genuinely believe what they say they believe.

I believe in the virtue of charity, but - come on. Do you really think that a person's private motivations for being in favour of/opposed to X are identical to their publicly stated motivations more often than not? At every point on the political spectrum?

Also, people who have objections to AI painting also tend to have objections to AI music and AI voice acting, even if those areas don't overlap with their personal skill set. Which is evidence that the objections are principled rather than merely opportunistic.

Alternatively, they believe (correctly, in my view) that generative AI is a war with multiple fronts, and if you want to win a war you have to win it on all of these fronts lest you fall victim to a rearguard action down the line. If AI visual art was banned but AI voice acting was seen as fair game, it's only a matter of time before lots of people start noticing that this seems kind of arbitrary and unfair.

Do you really think that a person's private motivations for being in favour of/opposed to X are identical to their publicly stated motivations more often than not? At every point on the political spectrum?

Well, it gets very complicated. People can be unaware of their own motivations, they can believe one thing for multiple different reasons, they can tell half-truths, they can believe something one day and not believe it the next.

I would just say that, as a general methodological principle, one should start by trying to find where the authentic principled disagreements are, rather than immediately jumping to cynical conclusions.

If AI visual art was banned but AI voice acting was seen as fair game, it's only a matter of time before lots of people start noticing that this seems kind of arbitrary and unfair.

Sure. But this isn't a psychologically realistic model of AI detractors. I assure you that the people who feel passionately about AI visual art feel equally passionately about voice acting.

The best way to understand people on the other side of a culture war issue is to start from the assumption that they really do genuinely believe what they say they believe.

We need a flashing banner along the lines of "Yes, your opponents actually think that. No, they aren't pretending to just to make you mad."

I've never for a moment thought that people opposed to AI art were actually fine with it but were just pretending to hate it to own the libs tech bros.

But there are also many non-artists who don't like AI art. Also, people who have objections to AI painting also tend to have objections to AI music and AI voice acting, even if those areas don't overlap with their personal skill set. Which is evidence that the objections are principled rather than merely opportunistic.

I don't think this follows. The only way some behavior is evidence that some belief in a principle is sincere is if that behavior is costly to the person, e.g. giving up food for some religious holiday or even the Joker setting money he stole on fire in The Dark Knight. I don't think making this kind of objection is costly to these people; if anything, it seems gainful in terms of status within their social groups. At best, it's evidence that they understand the logical implications of the principle they're espousing.

The only way some behavior is evidence that some belief in a principle is sincere is if that behavior is costly to the person

So what do you think would be an appropriately costly test for the anti-AI-art position?

That would have to depend on the specific principle at hand. If it's, say, that training an AI model from public data is stealing, then, perhaps if they approve of AI art tools confirmed to have been trained only from authorized images, even if it causes them to face the ire of their peers who still disapprove of it, or even if it causes them to lose out on commissions.

I wouldn’t want to accuse everyone who is down on AI art as being insincere or a dirty rotten motivated-reasoner -many people freely admit their concern is mainly for the livelihood of artists-, but I have seen these discussions play out many times on many different forums. I have rarely seen the ‘AI-art is stealing’ argument withstand even the barest scrutiny. It is often pushed by people who clearly do not understand how these models work, while aggressively accusing their opponents of not understanding how they work. As @Amadan pointed out in his far-better-than-mine post, when faced with the hypothetical of an ethically trained AI, people do not declare their issues are resolved, which indicates that the core of the disagreement is elsewhere. It smacks of post-hoc reasoning.

Which is evidence that the objections are principled rather than merely opportunistic.

I think the actual root of the objections are sympathetic. Artists are high status in online communities. People see a threat to them, empathise, and develop the core feeling of ‘AI-art bad’. From there we are into arguments-as-soldiers territory. Everyone knows that stealing is bad, so if you can associate AI art with stealing, even if the association makes little sense, then that’s a win.