site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  2yr ago (text post)   33194 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 10, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

23
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

More the point, Ariel is fictitious.

EDIT: Unsure why the downvotes. My point was that comparing someone's opinion on the casting of fictitious characters to their hiring practices is farcical.

So are unicorns, but we would say that a unicorn with 5 legs and scales is not a unicorn. Vishnu isn't real, but a depiction with 12 snakes for arms and one large eye is probably not Vishnu no matter what you call it. Whether things are real or not has no bearing on anything when it comes to accuracy.

scales

The seaponies and mermares of Seaquestria would like a word.

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Seaponies_and_mermares

But to the point, seaponies and mermares are not considered unicorns.

seaponies

Oh come on. 'Kelpie' was already a perfectly cromulent word.

I look forward to the Icelandic adaptation of Roots.

People often make these snarky comments such as 'what if a white actor played MLK' but it's blindingly obvious that these are not apposite comparisons. Race is obviously integral to Roots, whereas it has no relevance at all to the Little Mermaid. The appropriate comparison would be if you cast a white actor to play a part that was in previous iterations black, but with regard to which race was irrelevant.

Blacks are not uniquely good at getting whipped and following instructions poorly. I'd love to see some race-swapped Roots.

What fatuous remark. Roots is about African slavery; obviously you could make a show about another group of enslaved people set in Ancient Rome or Asia or whatever, but that would just be a different thing. While the characters aren't real, they are intended as a representation of the experience of a group of real people whose race is integral to the story at hand. By contrast, race plays precisely no role in the Little Mermaid.

"Race swapping your fairy tales is okay, but race swapping mine is double plus ungood."

Nah bro, my name is Chinkakinte, and I know kung-fu.

A total mischaracterisation of my position. In general I think 'race-swapping' is fine unless race played an important part in the story etc. So, I'd have absolutely no problem if they cast a white actor to play a role in an ancient African fairy tale or whatever. And conversely, I think it would be silly to cast a black actor to play Lyndon B. Johnson or Harold Macmillan.

I look forward to the Icelandic adaptation of Roots.

Story of Irish slave sold to Vikings 1000 years ago, and story of modern Icelander who found from his DNA test he is of Irish descent and went to search for his home village in Ireland?

Could be good.

Japan culturally appropriated it as Vinland Saga.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats