This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I’m glad you made this post and not me, because I realized almost immediately that I was not going to be able to write about this in a way that comports with the standards of this forum. Seeing Reddit immediately cry about how hard it is to be a black man in America and about how “the police in this country” - and especially ”Florida police” (DeSantis is Hitler, Florida is a fascist police state) - have a horrible track record and should never be given the benefit of the doubt made me want to throw my phone across the room.
I seriously have no idea what it’s going to take to resolve the “two screens” issue we have when it comes to policing in America. Things that are obvious and intuitive to one camp - “it’s wrong for police to treat you roughly you just because you’re being an uncooperative asshole to them” or “police are authoritarian bullies who must be vigilantly critiqued to prevent them from abusing their power” - are totally alien and clearly wrong to the other camp. Add the race angle and all of the attendant myths and slander that have accumulated around the issue thanks to a coordinated campaign of lies by the media, and you have another situation that has suddenly and bizarrely become a scissor.
As someone that's generally not much of a fan of the police, it remains wild to me that people aren't capable of viewing an incident and electing to believe that there isn't really a good guy in the picture. The cops in this video seem like they probably are authoritarian bullies that were unnecessarily rough because they didn't like the way Hill was acting. Nonetheless, this is easily avoided by not being a total asshole that tries to roll up your dark tinted window in their face. Personally, I would want the car impounded just for the tint even if there was no other infraction. I hate that shit. It just isn't very hard to find Tyreek Hill to be a completely unsympathetic asshole while also believing that the cops are petty authoritarians that acted unprofessionally.
This is my response to most conflicts. There is very rarely an interpersonal conflict where all parties involved act perfectly, or even with complete good faith. The cases where someone's clearly wrong, and someone's clearly right, don't make it to the public consciousness -- they don't have enough toxoplasma.
Everyone wants to think in black and white and see a victim and a perpetrator. There are certainly crimes like that, crimes of random targeting and heinous violence. But my view is that we live in a world of victimized perpetrators and perpetrating victims.
I have a little prayer I think of whenever I come across a conflict online, and find it hard to decide the truth of the situation:
More options
Context Copy link
Tyreek Hill's job is to catch a ball and run. The cop's job is to enforce the law. Tyreek Hill being kind of an asshole to someone who is, after all, his enemy in that moment is not nearly as concerning as the enforcers of the law being authoritarian bullies based on the slightest excuse.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Football players thinking they can get away with murder and being nasty about the concept of rules applying to them isn’t really an isolated incident, and it’s fairly endemic with football players- college ballers get away with shit on campus constantly.
Extremely true, and yet another reason why the assertions that “as a black man Tyreek Hill has to be extra-careful not to invite wanton police violence upon himself” is laughably opposite from the actual truth.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link