site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 19, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I guess if it was a really low percentage, like how the Swiss do property taxes, there may be some sense you could make of this, and it would actually be some incentive to make companies public, which would reinforce the power of the PMC and create a whole bunch of sinecures in the IRS.

But at the rates proposed here it's just straight up confiscation.

Even the famed 79% tax bracket that only applied to Rockefeller was on revenue income, not just straight up stealing from him because he has too much.

Yes, governments engaged in the most destructive war that has ever been do tend to straight up take everything from people. I agree, FDR was basically Mussolini.

He straight up proved you wrong and this is your response? How about a little grace and humility?

I don't respect people who go to WW2 to make arguments about peace time tax policy. Because it's transparently dishonest.

Especially when they accuse me of using the non central fallacy a few seconds before.

Sounds like a cautionary tale with relevance to the instant case, no? Camel, nose, tent, yada yada...

And no one actually paid these famously high tax rates either. There were a million and one loopholes that were closed under Reagan.

When Reagan reduced the headline tax rate (70% under Carter!), he closed the loopholes at the same time. As a result, tax revenues as a percent of GDP stayed level. The wealthy were no longer able to use their preferred tax shelters. Tax avoiders paid more. People who didn't try to game the system paid less. The result was a much fairer system for everyone.

Anyone who tries to use past headline tax rates as an argument simply doesn't understand the reality of the pre-Reagan code, which was inferior in every way. Only suckers or fools ever paid 70%.

It didn’t apply to revenue but income. Revenue would not be an income tax and therefore would be required to be apportioned amongst the states.

Yeah that's what I meant, it's the same word in French which always trips me up.

What's the word for revenue in French, then?

Both income and revenue are revenu, the latter being a loan word from Old French in the first place that means return, comeback.