This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
You can 100% do this. Monasteries still exist. Sure, the median motteizean would likely have to convert beforehand, but a monastery is already a lifelong commitment.
A few times in my life I've done a retreat at a Trappist monastery a few hours from where I live. You get a small private room and have some interaction with the monks, including the Keeping of the Hours, which I particularly enjoy. What I enjoy more than anything though is that guests agree to the honor the same prohibition on speaking that the monks do. There are designated "talking spaces", everywhere else is Silent. I don't like talking. I don't like being spoken to. This is simply not something that is compatible with modern life. Going 5 days without idle chatter is like floating in a dream for me.
More options
Context Copy link
A random aside but I do sometimes wonder why in the west becoming a monk (or functional equivalent) a lifetime commitment while in the east it was possibly to take temporary vows.
I know there’s a world of difference between Abrahamic religions & Vedic religions and their offshoots but I’m simply unsure of the answer.
I wonder what the west would have been like if it were possible to take temporary vows like in Thailand and be a monk for a few years.
Temporary vows are totally a thing in the west, though. In fact the normal process for taking vows in Catholicism is to have a postulancy(measured in months) to see if the lifestyle is doable, then a novitiate with vows taken for a year at a time until the novice is ready to take lifelong vows(this is usually an expected number of years depending on the order, ranging from three to seven). Religious Catholic circles are overflowing with people who took one set of temporary vows but left before taking lifelong ones. Eastern Orthodoxy is less well regulated and defined, but likewise doesn't allow any rando to show up at the monastery gate and make a lifelong commitment the next day.
Obviously this is different in the sense that one doesn't make temporary vows without intending to later take permanent ones. But laypeople who spent time in religious life are part of the framework of apostolic Christianity.
Neat, I had forgotten all about that. Reading this does remind me that I’ve actually met someone who did just that, took vows for a year and then changed his mind when it came time for permanent ones.
He was… very gay.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The protagonist of Houellebecq's Submission tried joining a monastery for a non-permanent period, but left after just two days. I don't know how realistic that is.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link