This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Something something 'there's a lot of ruin in a nation.'
Seems like the bet is that they can stave off a sharp collapse for a while and even if there is one as long as they control the narrative then most men won't be inspired to suddenly turn to violence to either attack the existing order or to defend a competing one.
It is really hard to imagine a group of capable young men organizing into something resembling a warband without being infiltrated by six different federal agencies, vilified to hell and back by every media company, and possibly debanked and deplatformed as well.
Which is just to say, they'd probably have to push things REALLLLLLLLY far before this became a real concern. Which is not me saying that it won't get there.
In and of itself, it probably isn’t. But we are in the midst of a poly-crisis, and this is another unstable element in an already rickety Jenga tower.
Yeah, that's perhaps my take on it.
We're in prime 'Black Swan' territory where the interaction of several different crises at once can lead to sharp and SUDDEN downturns from angles we weren't looking at directly.
My position is that Covid sufficed to pull a LOT of slack out of the system. Putin started strumming on the taut strings. China (or any number of other actors) might just go ahead and take a wire cutter to the strained order and let things fall where they may.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Generally agree with this.
The slow motion catastrophe is already self-evident; Women are competing for a shrinking pool of eligible long term partners and subgroups of men are either (a) opting out of mating altogether or (b) sociopathically exploiting the inherent ambiguity of courtship for their own benefit. You have more divorce, more single parenthood (mostly single motherhood), and constant household instability.
The primary society wide result will be that the next generation grows up developing a lot of maladaptive traits.
Then, we get the warbands.
Interesting observation there.
You get a cohort of males raised without discipline from father figures, and eventually realizing that the only thing restraining their bad behavior is physical force, and maybe noticing that there's a shortage of people who are capable of using physical force to stop them.
If these men are likewise convinced that their lives will not improve by following along with the roles society suggests, then yeah, what else COULD happen?
Which describes the state of '80s and '90s particularly well. If the nastiness in gender relations is cyclical (and relative equality should suggest that it is), then you'll get the men doing it next.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link