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Citing a few anecdotal examples does not equate to "objectively wrong." But I suspect we'd end up arguing over every IP to be examined and debating to what degree the "hardcore" fans did or didn't like it. I mean, I'd point out that Black Panther and the Guardians of the Galaxy were C-listers who were almost unknown to anyone but hardcore Marvel fans before the movies. If you think those productions, or any others, stood or fell based on the enthusiasm of aging comic book fans, I think you are deluded.
I have not watched She-Hulk, only read reviews and summaries, which convinced me it was badly written and full of characters getting up on soapboxes and pandering to the presumed sensitivities of the audience, which is, again, bad writing. It didn't fail because it was "too woke," it failed because the wokeness appears to substitute for actual dialog and characterization.
A lot of the conversation here seems to be a combination of hardcore fans desperately wanting the studios to believe their opinions are important, and people desperately wanting to find evidence that "go woke, get broke" is true.
Meanwhile, what actually determines success is almost always mass appeal, which correlates only loosely to quality (some very good movies bomb, though usually of the more artsy variety, while the dreadful Michael Bay continues to print money, even if his most recent venture fell a little flat because it didn't feature giant robots), and what motivates studios is making money, with wokeness and social agendas being tolerated because you always have to let the creatives have their little causes while they make money.
That's like the argument that the Soviet Union didn't collapse because of lack of respect for property, it collapsed because the government mishandled people's property (which happened because they didn't respect property).
Being too woke leads to prioritizing wokeness over everything else, which leads to bad dialog and characterization.
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Inconveniently for your argument, these are the things hardcores enjoy and complain about the lack of when absent.
Everyone enjoys dialog and characterization and complains about its lack when absent. Are you using some definition of "hardcore fan" that means basically "people with any degree of taste"?
Hardcores are among the only people in that set, yes.
That wasn't my question, but believing only trufans care about dialog and characterization and other markers of quality is not an uncommon affectation.
I'm saying hardcores are the most turned off by lack of quality. And among non-hardcores there are a much higher % that don't care about quality.
Hardcore fans are defined by their slavish devotion to some IP, if any group especially lacks taste it is hardcore fans. The tasteful enjoyers move on from a product when quality declines, the cultlike fans are the ones still buying iteration 37 even though quality went down the drain
A poor definition of hardcore if I've ever seen it. Hardcore fans are pioneers who discern what is the value early on and then police the ip into quality. Hardcore fans kept super smash bros melee relevant long after all its successor games faded from memory because it is simply better.
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That's the opposite of how it actually works. When Game of Thrones' quality was declining, it was the hardcore book fans that dipped out first (and even started pissing contests about which season was the one where things started going downhill). The "tasteful enjoyers" didn't realize there was anything wrong with the show until the very end.
You can see the same pattern with every franchise.
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Are they? Hardcore fans can be very persnickety, but they'll also grade their favorite IPs on a curve. This is the sort of thing where it's hard to generalize with confidence, but I've been involved in Star Wars fandom since I was like twelve, and looking back one of the things that stands out is the extent to which me and my fellow Star Wars devotees would heap praise on material that would struggle to get a passing grade if it didn't have "Star Wars" on the cover.
It used to be much harder to get any kind of decent nerd content. We had to love whatever shit they gave us, it was the only hope of getting any more.
We have the luxury these days of being able to say that it sucks and can just go consume different nerd content.
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My personal experience also matches this take.
I can enjoy media related to my favorite IPs that are objectively mediocre or even bad in various ways, as long as the IP itself is treated well by the media.
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