site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 22, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I never really understood the appeal of golf.

It's an outdoor activity that is neither too jocky like playing actual sports, too blue-collar like hunting or fishing nor too nerdly like flying model planes.

It's also doesn't require a rare location like a snowy mountain or a sea.

So when you want to meet with another manager in a casual environment, there aren't that many other options.

Neither hunting nor fishing are particularly blue collar in a U.S. context, although they are conservative coded. Elites do these things more expensively than working class folks, of course, but engaging in the activity doesn’t in itself indicate any particular spot on the class ladder.

Indeed, a manager inviting another manager out on his boat to go fishing is reasonably common.

I agree, but it's more boating than fishing.

So when you want to meet with another manager in a casual environment, there aren't that many other options.

Interestingly in England, the home of golf, this is known as ‘the pub’.

England, the home of golf

Scotland is NAE the same place as England!

Golf also has the advantage of being random. I can run with /u/Walterodim a dozen times, he'll be faster than me every time, he'll only stay with me by holding back. There will never be a day when, just randomly, I'm faster than him for a bit.

Trump looks like vintage Tiger Woods compared to me, but if I joined the scramble group here, I'd probably make a couple good shots, maybe just lucky chips or long putts anyone has a lie percentage chance at. I'm terrible, but at least a couple times a round I'll hit a ball so well that I'm thrilled.

Where in say, weightlifting, I'm always going to deadlift less than my concrete contractor and more than my wife, in golf I'll sometimes get lucky and hit one better than a pro would, and sometimes duff it completely.