This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I also found Trump's interview with Logan Paul quite humanizing and worth a watch. It made him look normal and sane compared to his usual public behavior. Granted, these are both very low stakes situations, but he rarely shows or grants access the normal side of himself. Perhaps his campaign is trying to clinch moderates. His brash, equivocal, and uncompromising rhetoric was often touted as his genius. Was he serious, or literal? Who cares? Hes Trump! But I think his base can still count on that, so his rhetorical style has been normalized.
One thing I never understood about TDS is how little attention is paid to the other side of the coin. In answer to a question nobody asked is a paragraph pointing out Trump's golfing bonafides, admonishing all who doubt as deranged. Trump is the most fervently worshiped US politician in my lifetime; the only political lifestyle brand I've ever known. He'll call your wife is ugly to your face, and then you'll stump for Trump as expected. With how little this even gets noticed anymore, I think TDS has become normalized.
It really is amazing how much, in American political psychology, the last 9 years have been The Age of Trump. It's not that America's actual political policies have been dominated by Trump - I think for the most part, if you had no idea that Trump existed and just looked at what the American government does in terms of policy, you could easily believe that the last few Presidents have all been normal establishment types. But his presence in politics on an attention-dominating and psychological level has been massive. I don't know who the last American political figure was who had such a hold on the public mind both in terms of attracting love and hate. Bush was widely hated but was never loved in a Trump-like way except maybe briefly after 9/11. Obama was widely loved but most of the really emotional "hope and change" fervor that helped him win in 2008 went away when even his supporters saw that for the most part, he was a standard politician.
There's this comedian Rachel Feinstein who really nailed something I've noticed over the past few years. In maybe 2021 or 2022, she posted a clip where she was complaining about her extremely liberal mother who is constantly ranting about Trump and how wretched he is. "She'll be like 'you know, he's not my President' - like yeah mom, he literally isn't!" It's a trend I've noticed: during his administration, people got so into the habit of ranting about how much they hated Trump and how awful he was, that they kept doing so several years after he'd been out of office, reduced to the status of a private citizen, an ordinary rich guy with no political power to speak of (and not even particularly rich when compared to Bezos, Musk etc.). When I pointed this out to them, they would get very offended and meekly offer the half-hearted rationalisation "well he's going to run for a second term so we have to keep the pressure on" or something to that effect. I really can't think of any historic precedent for this: the second Obama was out of office, Republicans largely stopped complaining about him (aside from the occasional joke about "Michael" Obama): I really cannot recall interminable ranting about how loathsome Obama is from conservatives throughout 2017-9, while their preferred candidate was in office. TDS is the wrong term for this - Trump just defined the Zeitgeist in a way that Biden did not. I'm sure in the future, a lot of people will "remember" Trump serving two consecutive terms starting in 2016, and will have to be reminded that he only served one (much like so many people "remember" Tim Burton directing The Nightmare Before Christmas, and have to be reminded that it was actually Henry Selick).
More options
Context Copy link
Trump linked the fire of Jeffersonian politics that is in the lineage of Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Huey Long and Reagan, burning away the soul of his fame and legacy to reignite the Kiln of the First Flame beneath the Washington Memorial to extend the Age of America.
Who stands in for Ornstein and Smough?
Ted Cruz and Chris Christie. (James Carville is Darkstalker Kaathe.)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yet, there are those who wish to cross the Rubicon, to feed the flames and let the last cinders burn, until nothing remains.
Get away from me, Kaathe!
The age of dark is not yet here!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Is this supposed to be a reference to something?
To link the fire.
Couldn't you have just told me plainly that it was a Dark Souls reference, rather than give a vaguely-worded link to a youtube video?
I could have, yes.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Praise the Sun.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link