This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I find this sort of false equivalency incredibly obnoxious. We have institutions that are 99.5% leftist, run by Democrat apparatchiks, and every leak or FOI document reveals quotes like today's "I don't want to hire white men for sure."
Is there any equivalent evidence from the other side? Any CNN execs caught emailing Trump: "jawol mein fuhrer, I have leaked the debate questions to Biden to throw him off his guard, your victory is assured!"
Or just insane conspiracy theories about how JournoList members conspiring with the DNC were actually Republican triple-agents all along? Literal stalinist levels of frenzied deflection against randomly chosen "wreckers"?
Just the act of labeling leftist zealots "blue maga" shows it's a tactic to hurt your enemies while making excuses for the now-revealed misdeeds of your own side.
The weirdness of qanon boomers is extremely different from the weirdness of the left, and conflating them is just a trick to criticize individual leftists without ever admitting the problems of leftism: "They're bad because they're just like the enemy!", rather than "woah our revolutionary ideology goes absolutely off the wall retarded at the slightest inconvenience, why is that?"
The more I read from deboer the more I dislike him intensely. A pretty intelligent mind capable of truth-seeking that's been deliberately turned to producing demeaning propaganda.
I guess the thing to understand is that hardcore leftists don’t really think minor stuff like the civil service or Google implementing hardcore quota-driven affirmative action is what they want. They don’t not want it, but they also want to overthrow capitalism, tax billionaires at 99%, nationalize the banks, that kind of thing, so even though the left has cultural ascendancy they still feel powerless and ‘betrayed’.
More options
Context Copy link
Bens a hardcore never Trumper. He seems to have a strong bias against him. So he tries to make these arguments.
More options
Context Copy link
Stalin was actually a "state capitalist" isn't an unheard of washing of hands in the DeBoer's part of the political spectrum, so he is probably just employing a trope familiar to him.
I think it might be more a long the lines of communists declaring social democrat parties social fascists. It's hard to place DeBoer, he just seems to lash out at everyone and seems like a rather awful person to be around, even when he isn't going through a manic episode.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Deboer is an actual literal OG Marxist, nearly everyone in the US is his outgroup politically. Yes, including self described Marxist socialists, who are usually more Zizek than Engels.
This makes him crystal clear about some things, and the ability to call out blue delusions is one of them. Which is mostly what he’s doing- he’s not MAGA, he’s not a Republican or a conservative. He’s using it as an insult, sure, but he’s insulting people who are definitely not republicans. He’s highlighting basically the same thing you are- that blue beliefs of institutions being aligned against them are by and large delusional paranoia.
More options
Context Copy link
Yep it’s bizarre. For example, we now are getting tons of leak about how people knew about Biden’s problems (eg Bernstein said he heard it from about fifteen sources; yet nothing was published). The most galling was the NYT that ran with the cheap fake claim. Then when that blew up they then went back to those same cheap fakes, did a little journalism, and it turned out they weren’t cheap fakes.
Or take George S himself. He was happy to give fake information re Bill Clinton and sex because he thought it was for the greater good. Thirty years later and hiding sexual liaisons is the gravest of sins. Which one is it George?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link