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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   29974 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 1, 2024

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I really do believe an adult woman should and does have the agency to refuse that last kind of ultimatum.

Empirically, they don't. I employ nannies, and I have had young women working in my house who would not have been able to say no to a well-executed "question expecting the answer yes". As well as the threat to employment (and housing for a live-in nanny) and the possibility of a bad reference (references are essential for childcare employment for obvious reasons), it is easy to add a plausibly-deniable implicit threat of violence. Plus 19-year-old girls just don't have as much agency as adult men.

Even if she did have the agency to say no, having to do so would be expensive in financial and reputational terms - particularly for a nanny who relocated to take a live-in role (as Gaiman's did, and so did some of mine). In general, managing the risk of shitty behaviour by a counterparty sometimes requires people to avoid trades that would be mutually beneficial. (This is why high-trust societies are richer than low-trust ones).

If it was common for men in my position to engage in quid-pro-quo sexual harassment of nannies, I wouldn't be able to hire nannies, and my wife would have to give up her freelance business, with a knock-on impact her clients' businesses. (She is one of <10 skilled technical writers in a niche subspecialism). Empirically, where quid-pro-quo sexual harassment is tolerated, it is common. So, with the greatest possible respect, Gaiman should FOAD. If the events happened as described, regardless of whether it was formally consensual, I would cheerfully hang him myself.

FYI your comment was presented to me for janitor duty, and as I read it I marked it as Good, until I got to your last two sentences calling for Gaiman's murder. That made me change my rating to Bad. You have great points and I think it's a shame you've ruined a good post with that ending.

I'm sorry - I wasn't intending to call for Gaiman's murder - I was trying to say that I favoured, in full knowledge of what it meant, a society where quid-pro-quo sexual harassment of employees was treated as a serious crime on a similar level to rape.

I suspect I have fallen foul of a difference between the cultural significance of hanging and nooses in American and British society - in the UK a noose is a symbol of excessively harsh laws, not vigilantism.

You should have said "hang him while wearing a silly wig", then it would be legal and morally in the clear.

I suspect I have fallen foul of a difference between the cultural significance of hanging and nooses in American and British society - in the UK a noose is a symbol of excessively harsh laws, not vigilantism.

Americans will absolutely use hanging or nooses in the same way('put him up against the wall' or for a very old southerner 'should go before the monitor'), it's just not politically correct because of neuroticism over potential references to lynching.

Interesting. I would interpret “put him up against the wall” as a reference to unofficial political violence - the same context as “first against the wall when the revolution comes”

I might be in the minority perspective here, given Amadan's response, so please don't take my feedback as anything more than one person's opinion. Thanks for being receptive to it!

Ironically enough, it appeared for janitor evaluation because it got an AAQC (I think Zorba should fix the system so that AAQCs don't get flagged the same as "Reported").

Also fwiw, while we do frown on implicit threats or wishes for violence, context and tone matters. So I agree he could probably have omitted that last comment, but as a mod, I would not read it as "Calling for Gaiman's murder."

(I think Zorba should fix the system so that AAQCs don't get flagged the same as "Reported").

The potential Quality Contributions are the best part of janitor duty.

AAQC (I think Zorba should fix the system so that AAQCs don't get flagged the same as "Reported").

I kinda disagree, the blinding improves impartiality.

Appreciate the perspective.

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