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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   29886 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of July 1, 2024

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Women's suffrage is controversial?

Controversial in the sense that its history not exactly cut and dry. It's certainly not controversial that all women should have the right to vote.

I guess that depends on the group of people your asking. On this website? Probably a bit. Within the general public not at all.

Normies will say stuff about race before they express opposition to women's suffrage.

I would agree. I would also assert that while a lot of normies are more racially aware than is PC to admit I don't think there is any hidden opposition to women's suffrage in a significant amount of people. (IE I can't imagine <5% of the population seriously think women shouldn't vote) I could be wrong about that but I don't think that I am.

You also have to factor in people with alternative ideas to universal suffrage that aren't about taking the vote away from women but would effectively lead to that for the vast majority of women in practice. I.e. those who support the idea of limiting the franchise to those who are net tax contributors.

Male normie republicans will, after a drink or two, admit they think women's suffrage was a failed experiment to a friend, in private, about half the time. So maybe low double digit percentage of the population at the high end? Definitely a much smaller one than will openly advise a young woman not to date black men because they'll beat her, or who don't trust homosexuals near children, or who think the government did 9/11 to take our rights away.

Male normie republicans will, after a drink or two, admit they think women's suffrage was a failed experiment to a friend, in private, about half the time.

Maybe this is a regional thing? I am from the northeast and know more than a few people who have and share with me some, let's call them, charged opinions and even they don't think that. In my experience "women shouldn't have rights" is an opinion that exists solely in the reactionary corners of the internet vs IRL.

Chiming in from the rural Midwest, I’d say the number is definitely way under half, but I’ve heard a fair number of both men and women say that they think women’s suffrage was a mistake. I’d guess maybe 10% of older women and 20% of men of all ages (EDIT: speaking only of red tribers, not the general population). Red tribe women are, in my experience, far more opposed to female politicians, however, even more so than the men.

You have to differentiate between the boomer humor “women, am I right?™️” sentiment mockingly said about suffrage from unironic reactionary “if there was a poll on it tomorrow, I’d vote for men only voting” opinions.

These people are absolutely serious. There's definitely people who actually literally don't support women's suffrage even as they aren't supportive of guardianship laws or the veil. Definitely mostly a male crowd. Red tribe, so almost definitionally more religious and socially conservative than average, but not necessarily particularly reactionary in views on other questions by red tribe standards.

The people I’m talking about are serious.

None of these people will argue for, say, women not having the right to drive. Some might think dress codes should be stricter but nobody wants Franco-style bans on women wearing pants in public. They let their daughters marry who they want, eventually, even if they don't like the guy too much. They don't think husbands should have the right to use corporal punishment on their wives, or men should marry teenagers, or women shouldn't be allowed to work outside the home(although I wouldn't say many of them encourage it). They think young women living alone is normal and not scandalous.

They're not arguing for Iran-style women's subjugation. They simply think that this particular right was a bad idea we're stuck with. Conservative ideas about gender relations are probably more common and closer to the mainstream in the Texas exurbs than in the northeast, but I was explicitly referring to red tribe normies there.

They're not arguing for Iran-style women's subjugation.

Women have been able to vote in Iran since the 1960s and that hasn’t changed under the Islamist government at all.

Sure. My point was that red tribe normies opposing women's suffrage are taking an outside the mainstream view on a specific policy question, and not supporting comprehensive social changes.

simply think that this particular right was a bad idea we're stuck with.

I argue the ship on that one saled when the property requirement was done away with. Andrew Jackson and his consequences..........

Oh ok, I misconstrued several things together that I should not have. Yeah, that tracks and makes sense to me. I was confused because I thought you were implying something you were not.

New England Republicans tend to lean moderate to slightly right of center. It is rare to encounter one who supports Trump.

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