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I think Biden probably said more false things (eg Charlottesville, Suckers and Losers, bleach). Trump was making a prediction re tariffs that the overall impact of tariffs coupled with his other policies will bring prices down. He didn’t get into it on the debate but on the all in podcast he noted he would make tariffs reciprocal so that perhaps his policy might bring down prices overall.
The biggest whopper for me was the idea that Roe was hugely constitutionally popular amongst legal scholars at the time it was decided which is a complete anachronism.
The post-debate spin/cope that "sure, Biden was incoherent, but that's because he cares about the truth while Trump just lies!" is so absurd. I am sure that Trump told lies, like "millions of illegals coming from prisons and mental asylums". I don't actually know that it's false, but it seems like it couldn't possibly be true or well-sourced.
On the other hand, Biden's claim that Trump said people should inject bleach to cure COVID is something I have personally investigated and know to be false. I view Biden's lie as more damaging, because it is not an obvious exaggeration or hyperbole, it's just a false statement about what Trump said about COVID.
A different media would be screaming about Biden's repeated claim that billionaires only pay 8.2% in tax, because it is basically a lie, but no, it's okay because some think tank did a study where they counted unrealized capital gains as income and came up with that figure.
Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal is bizarrely insisting on fact-checking what they call Trump's "false claim that 'every legal scholar' wanted Roe v. Wade overruled". While I think Trump said "every serious legal scholar", which of course allows him to no-true-scotsman the statement into being true, but also, could any viewer seriously think that Trump was saying every single person who studied Roe v. Wade thought it should be overruled?
I've long been uncomfortable with the media consensus that Trump's lies are out of proportion to any other politician, and I think the treatment of this debate provides a great example. If there is a difference, it is that Trump's lies tend to be "bullshit", claims that both he and we know aren't literally or precisely true, but express some true feeling, whereas Biden's lies masquerade as careful, reasoned analysis.
Yep. For example on Roe, at the time it was decided it was heavily panned. Many legal scholars thought (and think) the legal logic of Roe was shitty even if they agreed with the outcome (including famously RBG). Trump exaggerated this claim and could’ve been clearer but was directionally right. Biden’s response was the more mendacious one confusing the legal principle with the outcome—another poster pointed out Joe didn’t make this same mistakes years ago.
Another whopper I found hilarious was when Biden said if he could just raise taxes on billlionares he could pay down the debt and do about a million things. He noted his plan would raise 500b over ten years. We are currently spending every 100 days about 1t in deficit. That is, his revenue over 10 years would pay for 50 days of spending. This was a massive lie! The biggest lie of the evening. It was both factually wrong and contextually wrong. Everyone should be jumping up and down saying “this is BS.” Instead, we get quibbling over whether Trump really had the biggest tax cuts in history or the best economy (when in both cases it was clear Trump meant they were big and good).
Should Trump be more precise? Yeah I guess. But his meaning is clear and frequently comports with the truth. Biden on the other lies especially when you think through the context.
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Here’s a clip of Joe Biden making the exact point Trump did last night regarding Roe V Wade: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1806541264776565119
Great link also because it shows what Biden's stutter actually looked like - a temporary trip over a word or phrase, followed by punching through it to complete the thought.
That was not what happened last night. Sentences, thoughts, whole themes were randomly picked up and dropped off like a bus driver at burning man.
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