site banner
PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   3142 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for June 21, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

3
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

How could you care so little about something you do so much?

I suspect this is a rhetorical flourish, but if it's a genuine question I think you need to take a step back from your own perspective. Everyone has something that they use/interact with frequently, but they don't care about except for its utility. The premise of "you do this a lot" => "you therefore should care about it" is false.

I've been trying to find a balance between protesting too much on a Friday fun-thread and really trying to outline where y'all are wrong here. @sarker talking about a Pillow Case is still just... so wrong, so let's dive in.

First, I disagree that you can safely disregard things you do a lot. I don't care about pillowcases as much as I do cars, but I know enough to understand that a lumpy yellow-stained sack on my bedframe is going to hurt my sleep and disgust anyone else coming into my bedroom. No, you can't care about everything all the time, but you should absolutely be investing your conscious thought into the major components of your life. It really doesn't matter what it is.

There's a bit of a strawman argument going on here about caring. Caring about cars isn't just status symbolism, the sensory experience, or even how good it can be to drive. I care about how I load my dishwasher because I have to do it every day. I care about how my keyboard feels because I press it hundreds of thousands of times a year. I care about driving efficiently because catching ten red lights a week means I've spent that much less time idling at a stoplight in my life.

Second, the attitude of "Well it works for me, and it's not important" gets to the heart of my annoyance. People have collectively lost their fucking minds about dangerous cars are. They're completely desensitized to the responsibility they wield when driving it. If I don't care about my pillows, I may not get laid or wake up grumpy. If I run my tires down to the belt, I run the risk of at least making a ton of people late to work next time it rains, but also kill someone else.

Maybe many people (here and otherwise) don't care about cars but keep them well-maintained. That sounds like a purple squirrel to me, but let's say that's the case. I still believe that purchasing a vehicle with poor performance characteristics sucks. I don't get into situations where I need them often, but I once again don't understand thinking "YAGNI" when it comes to controlling your own fate on public roads. It's the same reason I have a shotgun locked in my closet and frequently train with firearms. I'm not interested in rolling the dice with police response times when it matters.

My main rebuttal there is what I said before: everyone has something which is a major component of their life, but they aren't putting conscious thought into. I would be willing to bet that you, as in you personally, have things like this. It seems completely implausible to me that if we were to exhaustively list every single activity you do on a daily (or more frequent basis), that you consciously think about them all with any sort of regularity. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think I am, and it seems to me that this is a very strong argument against your stance on why everyone should care about cars. They matter to you and that's fine, but not everyone feels that way.

Maybe many people here don't care about cars but keep them well-maintained. That sounds like a purple squirrel to me, but let's say that's the case.

I can tell you that at least I am that way. I'm not perfect of course, but I check my fluids every so often, keep air in the tires and make sure I have tread, etc. It is simply a matter of safety, much as you said (that and not blowing up my several thousand $ piece of metal through neglect).

But maintenance is one thing, performance is another. I see no reason why I should care about performance. It's not like my life will be saved by how fast I can accelerate, or how well the steering performs under high stress, or anything like that. It doesn't interest me, and it doesn't benefit me, so of course I don't care.

everyone has something which is a major component of their life, but they aren't putting conscious thought into

Everyone has that but.... should they?

For me it's my yard, which I've discussed previously. I know I should care about it but can't. It falls lower on the priority pole, but at least I still know that I'm putting myself at a disadvantage.

It's not like my life will be saved by how fast I can accelerate, or how well the steering performs under high stress

I actually think it could and I believe that mine has. You're showing a little about what I'm talking about. Braking is another aspect of performance, and the stopping distance difference between low and high-end tires is enormous. It is precisely what the layman disregards that can easily be life or death. Just check the stats on TireRack between the worst and best tires for common sizes.

The fact that not every sticky driving situation can be avoided through braking is one of the reasons I care about other aspects like acceleration and general handling.

Everyone has that but.... should they?

I would say yes. Realistically, people simply do not have enough time or energy to care that much about everything. Some things are important, and some things are not important but personally interesting. Beyond that, who cares? Life is short, and people should feel free to spend it how they see fit imo.

It is precisely what the layman disregards that can easily be life or death.

I think that this is untrue by definition. If something was actually a common cause of life or death scenarios, people would learn about it and care. If I learned that 50% of drivers were dying when they use CheapMcBad (TM) tires, even as someone who doesn't give a shit about cars I would go out and replace my tires. I don't care about cars, but I do care about not dying and so I'm going to take steps if something is actually a common failure mode.

Now there is a delay here in between "something is known at all" and "something is known to the masses". So perhaps the things you mention are in that in-between phase where laymen don't yet know that they should care. But I submit that it's more likely that those things are, in fact, edge cases. That they are unlikely to make a real difference in safety for most people, and only an unlucky few will encounter a situation where those things matter.

Second, the attitude of "Well it works for me, and it's not important" gets to the heart of my annoyance. People have completely lost their fucking minds about dangerous cars are. They're completely desensitized to the responsibility they wield when driving it. If I don't care about my pillows, I may not get laid or wake up grumpy. If I run my tires down to the belt, I run the risk of at least making a ton of people late to work next time it rains, but also kill someone else.

Maybe many people here don't care about cars but keep them well-maintained. That sounds like a purple squirrel to me, but let's say that's the case. I still believe that purchasing a vehicle with poor performance characteristics sucks. I don't get into situations where I need them often, but I once again don't understand thinking "YAGNI" when it comes to controlling your own fate on public roads. It's the same reason I have a shotgun locked in my closet and frequently train with firearms. I'm not interested in rolling the dice with police response times when it matters.

marsey_confused.png

I take my car in for servicing every 5k miles as recommended by the service manual because I want to make sure that I can continue to not think about my car. If my car were to break down or get totaled, that would be bad, because then I would have to shop for a new car, which I really hate. It's precisely because I don't care about car choices that I want to avoid having to make that choice again for as long as possible.

I seriously doubt that buying a car with a 4 second 0-60 rather than a 7.5 second is going to meaningfully alter my fate on public roads (if you feel the urge to quibble about the particular performance metric I chose, reconsider). Situational awareness (aka looking at cars besides the car in front of you), defensive driving, and not tailgating are really all you need to get home safe.

The disconnect here is believing that I am exclusively saying that people need to care more about cars. My post is about driving. By maintaining your car, being aware, and putting your phone down, you're at what I consider a reasonable minimum of giving a shit in a vehicular society. I know we're on this forum to discuss and, therefore, argue, but my sense of superiority is primarily reserved for the masses of swerving dentmobiles without hubcaps and trailing vape clouds.

But yeah, I still believe you're leaving many things on the table with a Prius. Efficient cars are harsh vomit comets, and nobody would accuse them of winning beauty contests. The sacrifice of fuel economy and long-term peace of mind is worth what I get in spades.

The disconnect here is believing that I am exclusively saying that people need to care more about cars. My post is about driving.

Eh, at best you are equivocating between the two.

Whenever I'm on the road watching hundreds of drones driving dirty shitboxes without using their turn signals or trying to drive efficiently, I fall into such a superiority complex. How could you care so little about something you do so much? For a country supposedly in love with its cars, it would be tough for Americans to give less of a shit about how driving feels and how they perform at it. For all I'm made fun of about the time and money I've invested in an older car, when I spread that out over the time I've used it and the joy I derive from it it seems like an obvious trade.

-

I know we're on this forum to discuss and, therefore, argue, but my sense of superiority is primarily reserved for the masses of swerving dentmobiles without hubcaps and trailing vape clouds.

My last car was (minorly) dented several times (when other, less attentive people were driving it...) and the paint was peeling on the hood. I could have dropped thousands of dollars to have the dents fixed and repainted, but why? I pocketed the insurance payout and put it in the S&P instead. Car drives just as well with a minor dent on the bumper.

What I'm trying to say is, you are again conflating driving and purely aesthetic aspects of the cars being driven.

But yeah, I still believe you're leaving many things on the table with a Prius. Efficient cars are harsh vomit comets, and nobody would accuse them of winning beauty contests. The sacrifice of fuel economy and long-term peace of mind is worth what I get in spades.

Good for you. The questionable thing is acting as if it's ridiculous that some people just want to have low TCO. More than one set of preferences is valid.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats