This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It kind of feels like a race:
Will conservatives get fed up with the behavior of the federal government first and decide that the rules for the distribution of power as they stand aren't working anymore, or will all the conservatives die out first?
The thing is that as progressives go further to the left, they create more conservatives. It could even be an equilibrium, if the new conservatives don't get cynical until they've been conservative for a while.
Real conservatives have already past this point for going on 60 years. Read Willmoore Kendall's thoughts on things like the 14th amendment to understand this. His prose is pretty dense. A contemporary alternative is Chris Caldwell's Age of Entitlement. Deneen is too populist to be a true small-c conservative, but there's enough overlap.
We'll always be an minority even within the Republican party. Reganite 'conservatism' isn't really conservatism in the traditional sense. But where conservatives can have an outside impact is definitely SCOTUS. This is the enduring legacy of Mitch McConnell, who built his entire career around getting the court where it is today. Is it enough? Incredibly, maybe not.
In terms of real conservatives totally dying out, I doubt it. The more salient question to me is how long and how much will pop-culture "conservatives" (your average Boomer Reaganite, or your current J.D. Vance / Josh Hawley style Trumper) continue to fuck around with dead end populism while allowing for the slow erosion of fundamental rights from the left. Nihilism is counter-productive by definition, yet so much of the current right seems to gleefully indulge themselves in it. Probably because it's easier to "burn it all down" than do the hard work of slow rebuilding.
That's sad. It makes me want to try to point things in a good direction.
More options
Context Copy link
You can't rebuild until you clear the site. Right now it's occupied.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
You would think so, but they don't. They pull the current non-conservatives along to the left with them.
European governments have steadily been moving towards the right the last few years.
European governments are set up so the more votes the furthest-right party wins, the more power the left has. At least France and Germany are. In the UK I'm hearing the Conservatives are set to lose big time, leaving the left in total control
The left, as defined in the French system, has not, in fact, had a particular amount of power in France for the recent years.
Just because they call themselves the "Decent moderate centrist party" or whatever the French call it doesn't make them any different.
Macron admin has pushed through a ton of reforms that the French left hates and its officials have regularly accused the left "Islamo-leftism" and what have you.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link