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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   3246 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for June 9, 2024

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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I realize this and agree. My main concern is marriage.

Convincing a woman to give you her hand (as it were) or selling yourself on a lifetime commitment to one female? Or something else?

Zero problem with commitment, not worried about actually meeting and dating a girl (have done this many times, a few that looked like they could go all the way).

My opinion, unfortunately, is that marriage is fundamentally broken in the west. I see this in my own laptop class PMC constantly where the pair got married on nothing more than the basis of "it seemed like the time!" Even if they don't end in divorce - which is common - the day to day subtle resentment between the partners is really astonishing. The hyper fixation on individual achievement or "actualization" paired with the toxic comparative nature of social media means that couples are living not for each other but for their imagined perception of themselves in the minds of other people outside the marraige. That's an insane way to be.

So, just find a down to earth girl who doesn't care about any of that. Maybe go a little more trad-ish, too, right? I (kind of) tried that. Started going to the Young Catholic events at a parish known for being very pro-coupling. The first girl I met was already engaged but we hit it off nonetheless and she became a good friend. A couple months into me going to these kind of events, having a few coffee dates etc. she pulls me aside and drops the truth bomb on me - a lot of the women in these groups are LARPing for a provider husband who they feel is utterly domesticated and low risk of ever straying away .... the men in these groups are pretty much doing the exact same thing but with a weird eye towards "sex on demand" and "thy wife shall submit!" This latter group are pretty much incels who went RadTradCath online, the former group are often party girls who wish to exit the hook-up culture and want to find a guy who is low risk, low dynamism. Both groups are entering relationships with a fundamental lack of respect for the other party. It's self-referential all the way down.

I want to commit to building a life with a partner, that is in no way the problem. I don't care about the leveling off of the passionate attachment phase of the relationship. But I do have sincere concern about the ability of most any firmly "in the matrix" person to really commit to the idea of marriage at the level of depth that I think is necessary for the marriage to last. Simple screening based on religious or political affiliation doesn't guarantee much (see above) and, what's more, I feel that social pressures and relative comparisons to other couples or imagined states of marriage are so omnipresent that they're a constant source of erosion of the commitment to the marriage itself.

I can recognize my own neuroticism here and I am aware that the only solution is to just do it and continue to work at it with a wife who also wants to work at it, but these thoughts persist.

I can recognize my own neuroticism here and I am aware that the only solution is to just do it and continue to work at it with a wife who also wants to work at it, but these thoughts persist.

Just settle and deeply commit to loving your wife. With prayer and effort you can make it work.

Whether that was a truth bomb or just her cynical opinion is probably something to consider. Cynicism (in the couples you mention, in the viewpoint stated about the group) is never, in my experience, attractive long-term. People who complain--about whatever is around them--generally become intolerable, but it's a slow poison.

Apart from that, it's possible to overthink this stuff. I'm a small-picture guy. I never really think about the scheme of things, the larger frame, etc.

Have you met any southern girls? Sorry, women.

If you main concern is finding someone to stay committed and married you can statistically hit a homerun if you follow the research. Household income over 200k reduces divorce stats with all other factors from around 50% (which includes people that get married multiple times and really skews the stats) to 30%, more analytical fields have an all divorce risk of 15-25% as opposed to bartenders etc which are above 50%, White and asian women have a divorce rate of only about 25%, Bachelors or higher also reduces all divorce rate to 25%. Making at least 38k more than your wife reduces divorce rates as well.

If you combine all those factors, ( I couldn't find many sites detailing the "intersectionality" of those traits and impacts on divorce, and I'm not enough of a mathematician to tease out a final %). But I've seen rates as low as 5 or 10% for college and above education, good family, high income, stable job, white/asian. Anecdotally zero of my good friends or immediate family are divorced, and none of that is for religious or cultural reasons.

Now you just need to find someone in that catagory that you like, and it won't be at a youth Catholic mixer.

168 million women 13.7% are 25 to 35 = 23 million * 40% college educated = 9.2 million. 67% white/asian =6.2 million you can take it from here with your own personal criteria, does not come from a divorced family, makes X amount, occupation, looks.

and it won't be at a youth Catholic mixer.

If a Catholic young adults mixer(a 'youth' mixer is for high schoolers in this context; I sincerely hope he's not going to those) has any women there at all, white teachers(k-12) and university students from stable Catholic families will probably be a comfortable plurality of them. This is pretty close to the scenario you describe.

It was stated originally as a "young catholic" mixer. Of course it isn't high schoolers and he clearly didn't mean that nor did I in "this context". Why you gotta make it weird dude?

You're also not going to meet a lot stimulating successful people at a mixer of any type, they don't need to go to them...

I appreciate the effortpost and math.

But the divorce rate is only half the battle. High income earners with college degrees may not get divorced at a high rate, but how many of the marriages are anywhere near healthy? In my own extended family, we have zero divorces but a bakers dozen incidents of infidelity that I only learned about at the family reunions after I could start drinking with the older cousins. In my own PMC circle, I've had both male and female acquaintances confide that they're only staying married for the kids and once they're out of college a divorce is guaranteed.

Again, I don't hold any fantasy notions about finding an easy marriage. I understand they take work and evolve over time. I've actually written about this on the Motte, but if I can't find a partner who I really believe has a similar concept of commitment (let alone level) - I'm reticent to risk it.

It doesn't have to be hard. Find someone that shares your values and wants the same things, or can learn to share your values and want the same things. I'm not a big marriage guy and I don't see the difference between long term relationships and marriage except in a legal sense. LTRs are in some ways more romantic and special because you're waking up each day and choosing to be together with no penalty for leaving, although if you are married and both work and don't have kids then those penalties are low as well, except having to say you're divorced.

Having kids is the big one; I do know very unhappy people that still need to interact with their hated former spouse due to shared custody, they never get over it. But if you want marriage and kids, there is only one way to do that, find a good woman and go for it! If you make a ton more and are worried about that then protect your assets.

Your reasons are somewhat valid but at the end of the day so what? You are a man. Nobody will give you a pity trophy. If there is adversity it’s your job to overcome it.

Theme song: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TafuUDUhYmw?si=C7Ip2zUoyhUbnEkr

As someone younger, but in a worse position than the OP, I'm increasingly inclined to think that the whole thing is just ridiculous. Many players, few, few winners. Going monk-mode sounds more attractive by the day.

What's your main concern about marriage?

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