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PaperclipPerfector  6mo ago (text post)   3442 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for June 7, 2024

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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Opinions on different WW2 era rifles?

I have a vague aspiration to collect bolt actions from each of the major powers. This was derailed recently when I saw a good deal on a Swiss K31. Now I need to find a better limiting principle.

Its an absolutely achievable goal. The market for mil surp from that era has not been great over the last 20 years but has improved in the last 5 or so from my observations. A lot of it is boomers dying and none of their kids want dad's arsenal. The big auction sites regularly get estate collections. There have been a few that have been so large they are comprise the entire auctions. The common stuff should be easy to find; prices are a different story but trending in a good direction at the more recent auctions I've browsed. The rare variants and low volume productions runs are where you really start to burn though cash.

Here's a fun video of a popular auction site owner reviewing a particularly juicy estate from a couple of years ago. This is just the handguns too! https://youtube.com/watch?v=JRjB8LA6vMQ

Opinions on different WW2 era rifles?

cackles in way-too-autistic-about-guns

The Garand is neat, the SVT-40 is cooler and I would argue a better rifle (fight me), the G/K.43 is interesting but ultimately a poor design, the G.41 is a terrible design, the No. 1 Mk. 3 is gorgeous but ultimately a mediocre rifle as is the No. 4 Mk. 1, the K.98 is nice but it has been dramatically overhyped by fanboys, the M91/30 Mosin is a piece of shit but I love it dearly, the M1886/M93 Lebel is a very cool rifle that I wish more people didn't know about so I could buy one for less than $1000, the Berthier does not interest me in the slightest, the MAS-36 has ugly metalwork but works like a champ, Arisakas are interesting solely because their action is so unbelievably fucking strong, and I have absolutely no opinion on the million fucking Carcano variants other than to say that Italian WW2 rifles hold absolutely zero interest for me.

If you're interested in starting a collection on the cheap I recommend going back in time to 2004. Otherwise, prepare to spend a lot of money.

the SVT-40 is cooler and I would argue a better rifle (fight me)

Fine: its trigger is significantly worse, its magazines aren't really interchangeable and its stripper clips are slower and more awkward to use, and its sights are far worse. Barrel's also too thin to get good accuracy without upwards pressure at the muzzle (which is also something sporterized No. 1s have problems with: the Garand has stocking problems too, but not to this degree, and there's less of an unsupported hole in the stock due to its internal magazine which would prove to be a problem in M14s) so inferior Soviet worksmanship (and even more inferior refurbishment) has severe consequences. Also, it cracks at the tang unless you have the heavier AVT-40 stock on it.

the G/K.43 is interesting but ultimately a poor design

Well, aside from its gas system, which is totally coincidentally lifted wholesale from the SVT-40. Shame its default settings beat the gun to death, not that it was a concern for the Germans at the time.

If you just extend your grasp to include 'straight pull battle rifles' you just need to add Swiss, Austrian + a Ross as I recall -- Rosses are really neat and go cheap because Bubba was told that they will eject the bolt in your face. (not particularly true)

because Bubba was told that they will eject the bolt in your face

Translation: they will eject the bolt into your face if you're stupid like Bubba.

I have one and Bubba would have to be not only stupid but also extremely strong and violent to get the bolt assembled wrong... so, yeah, possible I guess.

If you don't already have one, CMP Garand, yesterday. Sometimes they have carbines, and you need one of those too.

Other than that, if you're into turn of the century bolt-actions, I'd suggest a P17 Enfield (so you can still get ammunition for it), a Lebel/Berthier (if you feel like hunting down 8 Lebel) or MAS-36 (components for 7.5 French are a lot more available), a K31, a Carcano (they go on sale every President's Day but you need the right .268 projectiles or you'll need a second shooter- get one of the 17.7" barrel ones or even one in 7.35 though ammunition for that is even rarer), a Type 38 Arisaka (but if you get a long Carcano get a Type 44 instead), a K98, and a Mosin. That should cover all of the great powers (cheating a bit with England, but the P17 is just a P14 in a better cartridge anyway; if you need to fill that niche and already have a P17, get a No. 1, as the No. 4 is just a P17 with a 10 round mag and in a worse caliber- conversely, if you already have an '03 Springfield, then you'll want a P14 or No. 4) and also give you some variety in the collection.

For non-US semi-autos, I'd suggest a PPS-43 (or an SKS), an AG-42, and a MAS-49 (yeah, I know, but they would have fielded it if MAS wasn't busy- if that doesn't count, then SVT-40).

After that, as far as I know you're into the 2000+ dollar range with everything else that's interesting (i.e. the German semi-autos, RSC1917, etc.) so at that point it's just going to come down to what you like shooting more at the time. But 2000 dollars could buy a lot of great power pistols, and the order you should collect those is Steyr-Hahn 1912 (or Frommer-Stop), M1935 (A or S), Webley, M1917 (S&W or Colt, pick the one you don't already own), TT-33, Nambu, P38 (mainly because the Beretta 92 is the exact same gun). C96es fetch a really high price so they also don't make this list and you probably have a 1911 already anyway.

I’ve got a handsome (but postwar) Garand and a misbehaving carbine. Love them to death.

My Lee-Enfield is already a No. 4, I’m afraid. PPU makes .303 ammo at tolerable prices, so…I’ll manage. If I ever see a P14/P17 around, I’ll be very tempted.

And you’re of course correct about the 1911. I hadn’t even considered the other mentioned pistols. This will keep me busy for a while.

…are you serious about the President’s Day thing? That’s the kind of humor I can get behind.

Yeah, they did it.

I tried to go for "pistols that are still relatively unique in the grand scheme of things"; the Steyr-Hahn is clip-fed (and the "ejects all the rounds into your face if you press the 'slide release'" one), M1935s (well, one of them, can't remember which) are stupidly-accurate proto-P210s in a caliber that you can actually get/make now, the Webleys are top-break revolvers, the M1917s shoot .45ACP from moon clips, the Tokarev is a Colt 1903 firing lighter projectiles at ~1500 FPS, and Nambus are... uh, pretty weird. It's unfortunate that the weird German designs are as expensive as they are, because the P38 is pedestrian by comparison even though it is the successor to the C96 with that locking block design.

Come to think of it, does the No. 4 still do the thing the No. 1s do where you can slingshot the safety off when the rifle's cocked? I've never seen anyone ever talk about either rifle having that function (which to my knowledge no other rifle does).

Yup, it’s got the cool little lever safety by your thumb. I’m told you can break something in the firing group if you engage it after the bolt has been removed. Maybe that’s why it didn’t catch on?

CMP garands are still available? I thought the whole thing was pretty much done after the Obama regime made a point of not cooperating with them any more.
Didn't they destroy M1s rather than give them to the CMP? There was a huge lawsuit over it.

Yes, they're still available.

Bolt actions are incredibly boring tbh. Samey too. Meanwhile WW2 self-loading rifles s are exciting. You've got FG-40, a weapon that'd also be wortwhile in the modern day, Garand / SVT-40, the incredibly silly German rifle where gas was tapped from the muzzle because the specifications asked for 'no extra hole in barrel'..

And also I guess the Stg-44 which looks wild and was the first assault rifle in mass use. Technically the second but you know how it goes..the first select-fire rifle was only made in the WW1 era in a low amount of ~3000.

I agree that WW2 self loaders are amazing. They’re also either more expensive or flooded with Chinese knockoffs.

Though I did see a guy who’d built his own alternate-universe Stg from AR parts. Shit was crazy.

How can you build a pressed steel weapon from machined aluminum parts ? I guess it was some sort of AR-15 playing dress up I guesss..

BTW, I think the FG-42 reproductions aren't that extra expensive, $8k or so.

That is exactly what it was.

No idea why he wanted to do it, but apparently a lot of the machining was his own work, so I had to give him credit for effort.

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