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Small-Scale Question Sunday for May 19, 2024

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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So that “white woman cries over random injustice in the world” archetype that is often joked about. Eg a girl cries over the rainforest being destroyed… why does it only seem to be white women? I actually can’t recall ever seeing a black woman online crying about some injustice or harm which doesn’t affect them personally. I wonder: while it may be laughed off as pure naïveté, could it actually be evidence of a greater natural disposition toward empathy?

Just to test my intuition, I looked into who is most likely to run animal shelters or participate in animal rights and it is white women. If you look at animal rights protestor photos online they are almost always white. This over representation is of course criticized online and called white supremacism. Yet what better test is there of empathy than if you are emotional about the plight of animals? One’s emotional response to the suffering of animals is a consequence of their ability to feel the shared feeling of intelligent beings. IMO the political aspirations which follow from these feelings are flawed, but that’s a somewhat distinct question from whether it effortlessly leads to empathy.

You're just talking about upper middle class college educated women.

Redneck white women don't do that. Rich Black or Asian girls do.

They’re generally the ones with the time, energy, and privilege to worry about things that don’t personally affect them. The man has to worry about his job, home upkeep, and so on. Poor people are concerned about baseline survival and meeting their material needs. Upper class women and college students are both pretty unique in that they can afford to waste time on things that don’t affect them personally and generally don’t have a lot of other obligations that keep them busy.

The other thing, which I think slots into the privilege part is that being disproportionately upset by events and situations outside of their personal lives and the life of their community shows off their privilege. There’s almost always a bit of showing off to those things. They always film it, and quite often in their late model cars with an expensive coffee in hand and a fairly fresh manicure. The whole thing stinks of “look at me, even though I’m rich, and have more money in my clothes and jewelry than you make in a day, I’m soooo compassionate that I care very deeply about world affairs. And I’m so highly educated that I know the history of this obscure thing that the plebs don’t care about.” I don’t get the sense that they really do care. I don’t see a lot of evidence that they do anything about the problems they’re filming themselves crying about. They “care” about Palestine? Do they donate to Red Crescent to give humanitarian aid? Have they sent emails to their congressmen? Have they volunteered (and protests don’t count) to do anything about it?

redneck white women

Lots of animal refuges, horse rehab places, etc are run by rural white women though

Rich Black or Asian girls do

I have not seen this. Do rich Chinese girls advocate for animal rights in China?

Yeah, my sister-in-law is as redneck as they come and she never met an animal she didn't try to save.

Yet what better test is there of empathy than if you are emotional about the plight of animals?

Sociopaths are notorious for being more fond of animals than they are of people. #NotAllWhiteWomen, of course.

But if I were to try to spin an opposing narrative, maybe as one graduates from ignoring the comatose drug addict on the street, all the way up to viewing one's political outgroup as vermin, somewhere along the line all the repressed empathy finds an outlet in animals. Animals can never truly deserve to be hated, not like people. They're sweet and innocent and aren't capable of knowing any better.[1] Whereas That Guy over there knows exactly what he did, and he deserves everything that's coming to him, and if you call me a "mind reader", you're next against the wall.

[1] Except pit bulls, of course, which should all be killed with extreme prejudice. Invasive species, too. Unless they're cute.

Animals are in a sense easy mode. Animals generally don’t want anything beyond food and water and a nonabusive environment. They don’t really have demands beyond that. They don’t judge you or your life, they don’t complain, they don’t make demands, they don’t do things to annoy you or anything like that. People are the opposite. They aren’t happy with the bare minimum. A kid will turn up his nose at the dinner you made. A kid will complain about his cloth not being to his liking. A spouse will complain about the size or upkeep of the home. People judge you all the time. And they know just how to make you made.

I understand the sentiment of “if someone abuses animals, they’re bad news. I just see the cause a bit differently. Loving a being with no needs beyond the basics, one that doesn’t judge you or do things that annoy you, that holds no strong opinions you oppose — that’s easy mode. If you can’t be kind to a creature that exists to be a living teddy bear (which most modern pets are) then you probably have even worse behavior towards the people who do disagree with you and do judge you and do make demands and are annoying.

But I tend to almost give negative credit to people who brag about being kind to animals. It’s not really that hard.

They don’t judge you or your life, they don’t complain, they don’t make demands, they don’t do things to annoy you or anything like that.

That hasn’t been my experience: they require attention at the exact times they can’t have it (and that needs to be regularly provided), they need to be trained just the same as any neural network does, they scream at you when they don’t get their way, they have regular maintenance bills, and the like. Oh, and they’ll be like that forever and you’re committing 1/8th of your life to it.

I really don’t see why people bother. If I’m going to go through all that hassle anyway why should I do it for anything less than a human being? Sure, it’s a little more hassle, but it’s far more rewarding in the long run because I can do more things with it (2 legs, opposable thumbs, language ability beyond a couple of words, smarter than the average crow), and because most of the hassle is the interruption to whatever it is I’m doing, I want it to at least be important.

It’s not like I don’t get along with pets; but I’ve honestly never found a 4-legged animal I liked simply because their presence demands too much attention relative to their benefits. Or maybe I just find constant barking uniquely unpleasant because everyone seems to tolerate it just fine.

We got a puppy at roughly the same time we got our first child. The child has been vastly more rewarding, and vastly less frustrating.

Sociopaths are notorious for being more fond of animals than they are of people. #NotAllWhiteWomen, of course

On the other hand, isn’t one of the classic sociopathic tells that as children they torture insects or other animals, drown cats, rip wings off bugs etc? Most people who like their dog like their dog more than the median stranger, almost certainly to the point of picking the former in a trolley problem scenario (if they could get away with it).

Good point. Maybe it's the same thing as with people, where the sociopaths turn the empathy on and off whenever convenient. And we happen to notice the contrasts between the pets that they love and the people that they couldn't care less about, and we don't see all the other animals that they also couldn't care less about.

It's imo very clearly about affluence and not having better things to do. here in europe there are plenty of poor white (mostly eastern german/european) women who don't give a shit, while affluent black or middle-eastern women get into the same stuff as the white.