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I find this exchange a little amusing in light of your pro-Arminian tendencies that we were just discussing: I would have thought that meant that you thought that choices were not sufficiently determined by one's character and history and circumstances, while here you seem to argue that that does suffice.
If there is anything beyond our character and history and circumstances that informs our choices (personality, perhaps? Ineffable soul?), then it would still be the case that if I was him (in other words, had his character, his history, his circumstances, and his everything else that makes him him) I would be him and not me.
Perhaps what I meant is that I thought that you would think that our choices are not determined, that I thought you would think that there exists no set of things that would ensure that you make the same choices. (sorry, that's wordy)
I mean, yes and no.
I don't think my choices are determined in that I could not have chosen differently, but I will inevitably make one choice. And the choice I make will pretty much be the result of my character, my history, my circumstances, and divine intervention. If I'm set a problem that I agonize over, where I am not sure which way to go, that I waffle back on forth on, I'm still going to end up choosing something and not choosing every other possible thing. And while I would hold that it was still possible for me to choose something else, once I choose it's chosen and that's that. If you could somehow meaningfully "run the simulation again" with all the factors influencing my decision remain the same, I'm going to make the same decision. If I don't have any new information to work with, I'm going to come to the same conclusion.
I suppose one way to put it is that I"m fine with my actions being determined by my history, character, and circumstances because those are all things that make up who I am and any choice determined by who I am is my free will choice. If the choice is determined by something else (the blind movement of atoms, lets say, or a divine plan that determines my actions regardless of my history, character, or circumstances) then I don't see it as free will.
Okay, I'm pretty much on board with that.
A lot of people (not me, nor you) would prefer libertarian free will.
I'm not sure that my view is incompatible with libertarian free will? I believe a summarized definition of libertarian free will is that an agent is able to take more than one possible course. And I agree with that! I think we are able to make multiple choices. I also know that we only ever make one choice: from the perspective of someone looking back from the end of time, all the choices have been made and cannot be changed. And of course the choices we make are informed solely by our character, history, and circumstances (how could they be informed by anything else?). But I don't think the fact that we will make one choice, means we were not able to make another choice, just that we chose not to make those choices.
Honestly, any discussion of free will that goes too deep inevitably makes my head start to spin. I wouldn't consider myself a compatibilist, but then again I never really understood the compatibilist position so it's possible I am one and don't know it.
I think libertarians tend to think that we have some faculty of free will which must include some indeterminacy, which makes choices not solely based on our character, history, and circumstances.
I would affirm rather that we do genuinely make decisions between different choices (and so it makes a lot of sense to talk about our being able to do other things), but which choice we make is due to factors which are determined.
Quite fair.
Compatibilists just affirm that we can make meaningful choices in a determined world. Most importantly, the world is not fatalistic (what choices you make matter and are tied up in the world's operation), and people can be held morally responsible for the things they do. I see no real reason why either of those would be a problem with determinism.
People will bring up that there's only one possible path, but I don't think that that's a problem. Epistemically, we have multiple choices before us, and that's how we decide and act, and our decisions and actions play a key part in what we end up carrying out and what effect that has on the world. The fact that only one will option lying before us will ultimately occur, and so the others are in some technical sense impossible isn't especially important.
People might object, saying "Isn't it all a lie, then? You thought you had many options, but only had one?" No! It certainly is not. It did not turn out to be the case that that was always going to happen; it only happened because of the crucial role of our decision-making and agency. That action was only the one that was always going to happen because of the very decision-making process of choosing it over the others. Were it not for the exact interplay and balance of weighing that went down as you chose, you would have chosen and acted differently.
Of course, precisely the problem is that that last "were it not…you would have" is dealing with things that might not, strictly speaking, be possible. But I think this is mostly an artifact of difficulties of talking about possibilities in deterministic world, not an argument that we should abandon the concept outright. Regardless of whatever you think about whether humans have libertarian free will, there would still be features in a deterministic world where it would be useful to talk about counterfactuals.
Every less complete model will treat those actions as possible, including the ones we use in our day-to-day lives.
But I think my core argument for compatibilism is:
I make choices because of reasons. Weakening that makes me less, not more, free.
It sounds like we agree with each other on free will then. If you truly are a compatibilist, then I must be one as well because I see no disagreement between us. That's good to know!
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