Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
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Notes -
Dune Part 2 was the last movie I saw in theatres and cannot recommend it enough. It is similar to LOTR in the sense that it is able to showcase a lot of loyalty to one's aristocracy or ruling clans in a way that all people can relate to. The movie is majestic, grand, an epic in the real sense. I loved Javier Bardem the most and recommend everyone to go watch it.
I will be listening to a lot of house and trance music from the 2010s, not super mainstream stuff but rather somewhat mainstream so Anjunabeats and all. As a teenager, I did not like my classmates at all so I spent a lot of time listening to dance music and back then my attention was not as fucked. I remember listening to Aviciis BBC Radio 1 essential mix, seeing Swedish house mafia disband (in hindsight their music was not even good) and overall got to hear a ton of really good tracks. Listening to music in your room is a relaxing affair, I intend to do it this weekend.
I was also at a wedding a few weeks ago where me and a guy I met there downed more than a bottle of tequila in under 6 hours with zero side effects so it is a great liquor lol. I was at quite a few weddings every weekend with two being those of my cousins, danced a lot at the second one and honestly, I really like dancing now, I get why people visit nightclubs, besides the part about meeting other attractive people. not much besides, my startup journey is far more complex than I thought it would be, making my uni issues seem inconsequential but I am positive. I am still depressed like today I saw my former oneitis (now a functioning cokehead) in my dreams taunting me about the amount of drugs and dudes shes been with since I stopped talking to her but I will be fine, I'm reading Eguenge Gendlins focusing and hopefully, that should aid me.
Have a great weekend folks, I wish I could post more and I plan to soon. themotte honestly played a much larger part in shaping my worldview than my uni mates since I got here in 2019 as a high school drop out and I find it wild that it has been half a decade. I hope this place does not die off.
I loved dune 1, but I didn't really like dune 2. I'm okay with movies being different from books they're based on, but this movie quite simply did not deserve it's running time. They could have done so so so much with 3 hours and touched on so many great themes from the books, but I'm left with the feeling that they simply squandered the running time. Many decisions I simply don't understand for this. Some of which are: why condense it all into less than 9 months? Why cut out Alia? Why cut out the spacing guild? Why cut out Paul teaching the fremen the weirding way? We are left thinking that the only reason Paul wins in the end is just because he used nukes
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Since this is the Dune thread I'll post my thoughts on my recent readthrough of the first four books. I just read Dune, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune in a row. I wanted to catch up on them in time to see the movie in theaters. A lot of people keep telling me God Emperor is where they get good so maybe I’ll muscle through one more yet. Thoughts:
— Holy shit I feel like I’m stumbling across a conspiracy as I realize that half the fantasy and scifi since Dune was a ripoff of Dune. Star Wars? Just Dune if it was more fun. 40k? Just Dune if you put Leto II to sleep and make the humans fight various Aliens, while really grappling with the scale of a galaxy. It almost feels like a book of memes, a book of tropes that other writers would mix and match and remix into new forms. A Song of Ice and Fire is the worst though. It lines up near character for character, and it amazes me that I didn’t hear about it before. GRRM just took Paul and split him into three Stark sons: Jon Snow is Paul among the Fremen, Rob is Paul the Atreides duke seeking righteous revenge, Bran is Paul(/Leto II) transcending humanity and time itself. We’ve got the murderous young girl, we’ve got the scheming mother, we’ve got the thousands of years of dynasties that don’t go anywhere…on the other hand by comparison to Westeros:
— Why is the world of Dune so tiny and empty? The whole universe seems to consist of like, a few dozen people. The immense human suffering hand-waved off camera never matters, because we never get to know anyone at all. GRRM or Watchmen did a great job with this, Herbert doesn’t even try. The first group of Fremen that Paul and Jessica meet are of course perfectly suited to be Paul’s lieutenant’s to run the galaxy, none of them turn out to be greedy or lazy or incompetent, it’s a sort of galactic scale version of the star Basketball player putting his buddies from high school in charge of his money, except it all works out just fine. Out of all the other billions of people in the galaxy, none of them manage to work their way up to the inner circle. This is, to a certain extent, the core fantasy conceit of Dune: a fantasy of human genetics by which supermen can be bred, individually for Paul and en masse for the Fremen. The fantastical idea that Fremen were super soldiers and that it mattered that they were super soldiers, that living in the desert and fighting your mates a lot would make you ready to take on the Marines, and then if you got enough desert dudes who fought their mates a lot they’d take over the galaxy. History does not back up this idea. But that would have required creating new characters, and we can’t do that. Alia is inhabited by thousands of ancestral memories, souls of the powerful and legendary teeming for attention across centuries, as she loses control of them she is possessed by a nigh-impossible-to-understand terror from deep time…oh wait, no, it’s just the fat guy from the last book. This reaches its parodical pinnacle in Duncan Idaho, a pretty flat stock fantasy character who they physically keep recycling, bringing him back to life so he can sacrifice his life in ever more baroque ways. There are a decent number of named characters, but they’re generally all cardboard cutouts with motivations like “Duty” “Tradition” “Service to the Atreides” “idk I’m evil and want power” or the ever popular “confusing clusterfuck of past lives.” Which brings me to…
— None of the characters do normal things, ever. I understand that Paul, Leto II, Ghanema, Alia, and to a lesser extent Jessica are all supposed to be impossible to understand, they’re supposed to be beyond human comprehension, pushing the boundaries of what constitutes Human. But they never do things for fun. Paul doesn’t like anything, fine, sure, something something expanded consciousness he’s not really human. But no one likes anything. The only people who like anything at all are the villains: Vlad likes murder-fucking boys, Farad’n likes history, Piter wants to fuck Jessica. I guess I’ll spot you Gurney, he likes music, on occasion. None of the named Fremen like anything, except disapproving of other unnamed Fremen liking things. It’s a flat, empty, unpopulated universe. Compare to ASoIAF: Westeros is crammed too full of people who like too many things. They are constantly pinging off each other’s desires, even at times when it doesn’t make any sense. Dune only discusses sex at a disgusted remove, sexuality is unhinged rape, or it is dutiful bonds of marriage, or it is a man being seduced to have his vital fluids drained by a Bene Gesserit. Nobody ever has sex just for fun, the closest we get is some weirdness around Alia in Messiah, but everyone gets together and says “Lets just marry her off to the much older zombie, that will shut her up.” The next time she has sex for pleasure, it’s a sure sign that she’s been inhabited by a Demon (uh, the fat guy from the last book). Nobody ever does anything just for fun. Tolkien’s characters are so much deeper and more human, Sam falls in love with a pretty girl and likes gardening, Bilbo writes up his adventures in a book, Legolas and Gimli compete over how they’ll improve Minas Tirith with their own special skills after the war is over, even Gandalf has his little pleasures of a smoke and telling stories.
— Kudos to Herbert though: he could write a good novel. What’s impressive about Dune is that each of the first four novels stand alone. If Herbert had died or quit writing in the universe after any of the four, the saga is perfectly well concluded. Dune could end with “Paul won, but he sees the Jihad coming” and it’s a satisfying conclusion. Dune Messiah could conclude with the twins born and we just imagine what happens next. Children of Dune could end with Leto II becoming snek and just leave it to the imagination. In the modern world of the obligatory trilogy, or of GRRM failing to ever finish his sprawling series at all, the stands out. At the same time each novel begins naturally, there’s no sense of “hey I thought we settled all that in the last book” or “where the fuck did [new galactic threat] come from?” that ruins so many sequels. Herbert deserves a ton of credit for plotting his novels so that each one is satisfying as a novel in and of itself. That requires a kind of discipline that is so often lacking.
So, anyone else have thoughts on “What if the sand had Cocaine in it and the weirdly Aryan Arabs all got so high they became invincible?"
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Concur about Javier Bardem. Best part of the movie.
I watched it with my wife, after renting part one for her to catch up. I've known the ins and outs of Dune since I was 13 and read all the books. She was utterly lost, and I can't blame her. The movies barely touch on why the spice is important. I know the director is a "Show, don't tell" guy, but even Lynch filled his movies with scenes of characters consuming mass quantities of spice to fuel their otherworldly abilities. Mentats, Guild Navigators, Bene Gesserit. We got none of that in the new movies.
I really disliked the "romance" between Paul and Chani. I think I counted one singular tender moment between them, and the rest was Chani talking down to him and scowling. I had to explain to my wife that in the books, and even the other adaptations, their romance is basically the perfect fated experience. That by the end of the first book they'd already had, and lost, a child together. That when Paul took the princess as essentially a hostage for the throne, Chani gloated that she was Paul's true wife, and Irulan would never be so much as touched by Paul. That far from it being Chani's humiliation, it was Irulan's.
So yeah, it was a feast for the eyes. Javier Bardem was amazing. Otherwise nearly all the themes and complexity of the books were lost or muddled with current year nonsense.
I have a soft spot for the director, perhaps his aim is to create a visual feast first movie that has time constraints. I am aware of the dune mythos and I liked the movie given the movies that have come out recently. It was unique and though nothing can ever compete with the books, it is a good interpretation regardless and is a great movie if seen in isolation from the books which I think is alright given that movies inherently cannot prtray the same level of depth written things can.
Yeah, I found it disappointing too.
What current year nonsense? please do elaborate, I did not see an overly political agenda being pushed by it.
I mean, just Chani and Paul's entire dynamic. Mother fucker is a god king and she still treats him like something she found on her boot. Like I said, they took this fated love from the books, and turned it into yet another girlboss scenario. You literally cannot show a woman treating a man with respect or kindness on the silver screen anymore. Much less deference.
Yeah, it was unnecessarily vitriolic and they cut out important parts of their relationships as well, besides chanis behavior, did you find any other subtle or overt political messages n the movie that you would say are more the same current year bs?
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From what I remember Lady Jessica was plenty kind to Leto and Paul.
She is also portrayed as a much more antagonistic character in this movie than in the books.
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