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Culture War Roundup for the week of February 26, 2024

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If you want one to provide an argument that wins against your hypothetical nebulous "them", then it's a rigged game from the start. Any opposing force that behaves like you describe will either force their rules through if they're stronger, or won't if they aren't. There isn't any point in discussing arguments, just push against them with the same "ew, date someone your own age, creep" that works well now. Or woodchippers, if you're more physically inclined.

The current concept of the age of consent is a messy empirical thing that evolved from (obligatory disclaimer that the list is non-exhaustive):

  • the concept of female virginity as an asset, especially one that the girl's family has a stake in
  • the taboo on sodomy and male homosexuality
  • the risk of unwanted pregnancy and STDs, even as contraception exists
  • the social status harm that comes with the reputation of being indiscriminate in sexual contacts
  • the evaporation effect of heavy age of consent laws/stigma, meaning that the adults who do mess around with minors despite all that aren't the most conscientous bunch
  • atomization of society, meaning that repercussions against actions that are legal yet unethical are unreliable
  • the disparity in social and economic power between minors and adults, seeing as the former don't work and don't have access to many enticing things adults have such as legally buying alcohol or access to parties

A non-empirical, rigorous case can probably be made against the big P Pedophilia, as in involving the big C Children. Anything with teens? I see two ways for you if you want to reduce the impact of any nebulous MAPs who are gonna come out of the woodwork any second now. If you want to prevent the acts from happening, go chip in with the "ew, she's only 19 and you're 25, are you too infantile for mature women?" crowd. If you are more interested in preventing harm, improving society in the direction that will actually make teens better equipped to handle relations with adults (sexual and otherwise) seems to be the way.

If you want one to provide an argument that wins against your hypothetical nebulous "them", then it's a rigged game from the start.

Fair enough. The context of this perspective is that we saw them just lie about what we know about reality in order to win political victories and then subsequently freely admit that it was all bullshit, but that it doesn't matter now that they won. Reasonable minds can disagree on whether that model of a rigged game reflects underlying reality or a mere rhetorical trick.

Unfortunately, I don't see much in the rest of your comment that would really go against anything that I've said, in particular. In fact, your closing

If you are more interested in preventing harm, improving society in the direction that will actually make teens better equipped to handle relations with adults (sexual and otherwise) seems to be the way.

seems to dive right into the mire. That is exactly the hypothetical route that I am proposing they will use to achieve their goals, and you are saying that we should plow forward, full steam ahead. More comprehensive sex education, more earlier! Where to draw the line? Lines? Where we're going, we don't need "lines". I don't usually talk a lot about the topic, but it shows up here often, plenty of examples of these folks just brazenly having more sexual "education", with more sexually-explicit teaching materials, at ever younger ages, with it 'never being too soon' to start teaching children how to be better equipped to handle relations with adults (sexual and otherwise). I also don't actually claim a super strong predictive position of to what extent these types of efforts could empirically be successful. But I do strongly claim that the people who think this have a violent, fundamental clash of foundational theoretical principles with the people who think, "It is trivial that children cannot consent." I think a lot of people were forced to parrot the latter in order to not be an X-ophobe and to support the Good and Righteous Fight, and they do not realize that their "enlightened societal learning" is already being implicitly viewed as false, just like they didn't realize that their "enlightened societal learning" on biological determinism of sexual orientation was basically a lie from the start, pushed for political gains, but already disbelieved by those who have other foundational theoretical principles.

No, I don't mean "better more earlier sex education". I mean addressing the power/status disparity, atomization, pregnancy/STD risk and other factors that make teens ill-equipped to participate in society. It is not a simple task, it is not just about teens and it certainly won't amount to "better education".

Ah yes, with Fully-Automated, Luxury Gay Space Communism (plus even more plus good contraceptive education/use), finally we will overcome the silly hangups of backwards, religious, sex-negative prudes that may have only been useful in evil patriarchal capitalistic systems. Then all the kids will have loads of double plus good sex!

I mean, yeah, this is what they say/want, and it doesn't change anything about my comment on how this worldview violently clashes at a fundamental level with those who think, "It is trivial that children cannot consent."