This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The argument being made here doesn't require progressive Jews to take their own religion seriously. It requires progressive Jews to think that pro-Israel evangelical Christians take their religion seriously.
To the extent that they take their own religion seriously, pro-Israel evangelical Christians are aligned with the Third Temple fringe of the Israeli religious right. Secular jews (particularly in Israel, but also in the US) hate the Israeli religious right with the same intensity and for the same reasons that secular Yankees hate the SBC.
It's a funny mental image. Evangelicals helping Jews build the temple and then they look at each other and say guess we'll see about that Jesus guy now.
Yes, yes it is.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It's not the Israeli religious right which wants the embassies to be in Jeruselam. Here's the leader of the opposition calling for the move. Trying to spin the move as somehow anti-semitic due to some out-there beliefs in evangelical eschatology is an extreme reach.
Progressive American Jews are not anti-Trump because of his policy - they are anti-Trump because of his coalition (which definitely includes the dangerous kind of evangelical, and arguably includes the kind of people who march through Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us.") This is a perfectly good reason to be anti-Trump in spite of his moving the embassy.
How does replacing the alt-right type of people (conservative white Americans) by progressives work out for the Jews? Not so well in higher-ed if you ask Ackman.
Can we say one way or another if bolshevik revolutions have been good or bad for the Jews as a group?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link