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PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   2217 thread views

Transnational Thursday for January 11, 2024

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

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Ecuador hasn't had the death penalty since 1897. They can't (legally) execute him without changing the constitution.

Wow, I did not know. That is a very bad thing considering the conditions they live in now. It may be that only prosperous countries can afford to be humane. That being said, that's pretty early for getting rid of capital punishment, right? I wonder how many other countries could say that. Feels like we didn't start caring about people living or dying until after World War II.

Edit: Holy cow, looking at this map on this page is pretty shocking to me. How could so many non-European countries get rid of it? Looks like for South America, Ecuador was late to the party, if anything. Damn. Like I said, I think pretty much everywhere that's not western Europe or a Commonwealth country could probably benefit from the death penalty.

That color scheme is hilarious. Clearly lets you know which side Wikipedia prefers.

Russia is an abolitionist-in-practice? Man, they really need to improve their building codes, I'd never buy an apartment with windows or a bathtub there.

They didn't hand down any death sentences between the first Chechen war and the Ukraine invasion, apparently. All those journalists dying in suspicious circumstances were extrajudicial.

When any outside observer can, with minimal cynicism required, attribute their deaths to FSB agents or other goons sanctioned by the government, I consider that a distinction without a difference. You might argue that it could be at the behest of individual oligarchs, but Russia can be accurately described as an oligarchy.

Oh will no one rid me of this meddlesome journalist?

That having less concern about regime critics being murdered by "random thugs" who will never be investigated than murderers being sentenced to death is stupid doesn't mean it's impossible to draw the distinction.

Hence the:

I consider that a distinction without a difference

It is largely petty criminals and malcontents who languish indefinitely in prison, assuming they weren't liberated and then killed by Wagner. Or get raped to death. Maybe Wagner does that too.

If you are an opponent of the regime, you are lucky to get a trial at all, let alone a fair one. And if you die, the fig leaf that it wasn't court-sanctioned fell off a while back.

Did Prighozin get his warrant served for sedition? Only if you consider an AA missile a suitable means of delivery.

In other words, the fact that they do not legally claim to practise the death sentence or have put a moratorium on it means nothing at all.

Sure, progressives object to criminals, lumpenproles, and other such creatures facing negative consequences(whereas ordinary middle class people biting the dust unjustly is eh, it happens occasionally), and that's the distinction being drawn.

It's incredibly dumb and messed up that amnesty international cares less about white collar regime critics getting beaten to death by implausibly-deniable thugs than they do about murderers hanging. But they do and that's the distinction they're drawing- and it is a meaningfully different distinction.

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You might want to refresh your history knowledge. Europe wasn't particularly early in abolishing the death penalty. Ironically for this subthread, several Central / South American countries were among the first.

They abolished it in the same way Russia abolished it, which is to say they merely altered the means by which state-sanctioned executions take place.

Previous attempts to bring back the death penalty in Latin America have resulted in cartels killing literal hundreds of random people in protest at the possibility being floated, and in Mexico cartels have taken entire cities hostage to prevent extradition to the United States of leaders who would be charged with a capital offense.

It may well be that reinstating the death penalty is the right move for countries with cartel problems on the whole, but few leaders have the cajones to accept schoolbusses full of orphans being slaughtered on live TV for talking about it.

Wow! I did not know this either! Violence enforced humanitarian stances are something. I don't even know how you would go about fixing this...

I guess this is a life lesson that you should never let go of the death penalty. Just quietly stop using it if you don't like it any more.

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