site banner
PaperclipPerfector  10mo ago (text post)   2219 thread views

Transnational Thursday for January 11, 2024

Transnational Thursday is a thread for people to discuss international news, foreign policy or international relations history. Feel free as well to drop in with coverage of countries you’re interested in, talk about ongoing dynamics like the wars in Israel or Ukraine, or even just whatever you’re reading.

6
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

A few things:

  1. The media describes the Houthis as “rebels” but they control 85 percent of the urban parts of Yemen. The “legitimate government” is confined to some mountain and desert strongholds. For all practical purposes attacking the Houthis is like going to war with an actual country.
  2. Saudi Arabia has been bombing the Houthis for years with American assistance. It hasn’t done much. There’s a good chance this will escalate into an invasion and a lengthy ground campaign.
  3. The Houthis actually have pretty good weaponry from Iran. And possibly very good weaponry from Russia. No European leader wants to get one of their cruisers murked with hypersonic missiles and be politically on the hook for the deaths of 400 sailors.

The media describes the Houthis as “rebels” but they control 85 percent of the urban parts of Yemen. The “legitimate government” is confined to some mountain and desert strongholds. For all practical purposes attacking the Houthis is like going to war with an actual country.

This looks true, which I hadn't picked up on when I'd first skimmed wikipedia.

Where do you gather information for things like this?

This looks true, which I hadn't picked up on when I'd first skimmed wikipedia.

apparently wikipedia authors are anti-Houthi so they don't show it

A quick glance on "Yemen population density" and comparison with areas controlled by Houthis will do

I very strongly doubt that the Houthis have current top of the line equipment from Russia. The ability to hit a corvette or two I’ll buy, but they’ve been fighting Saudi Arabia, which does carpet bombing with precision munitions. Not actually evidence of having great long range strike capabilities.

For all practical purposes attacking the Houthis is like going to war with an actual country.

If anything, that seems to be rather good than bad for prosecuting the war. For somebody like the West, it's much better to have a war with an actual proper country than a bunch of vaguely defined rebels. It's much easier to pressure the country into making some kind of a deal - after hitting their soft points, which any country has aplenty - than hunting down every single last cave dweller in the desert, without even knowing if there are more or where they are. If they are like a country, they have offices, stores, ports, materials, etc. - all this can be hit and destroyed. The bigger the target, the easier it should be to strike it, not? And then, the carrot can be presented - if you stop the stupid shit, maybe we'll let you have your country and run it as you please.

No European leader wants to get one of their cruisers murked with hypersonic missiles

Not even Russia is dumb enough to give those guys something like that, and also it's not a magic wand - it needs to be used properly to strike a warship, and the likelihood of anybody there knowing how to do stuff like that is null. Russian "advisors" probably could pull it off but Russia has enough trouble to be actively involved in another war right now. They are buying weapons from places like Iran and North Korea, not selling them.

For somebody like the West, it's much better to have a war with an actual proper country than a bunch of vaguely defined rebels.

Wouldn't they need to have recognize Houthis as legitimate government to do so?

Not really, it just needs to have the same set of vulnerabilities as legitimate governments, or at least a sizeable subset of them.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats