site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 8, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

The difference is that some measure of sympathy for the most hardcore Stalinists who got Gulaged is ‘justified’ by the fact that they grew up in the system (even pre-1917 many were early members of Bolshevik groups and so on, had parents who were etc), were brainwashed by years or decades of propaganda, and had no frame of reference for the outside world. You can’t be too judgmental of the morality of a core Kim loyalist in the DPRK whose entire fifty-year lifespan has been dominated by an ideology that worships his lineage, at least without some hypocrisy in most cases.

Going to an extremely corrupt shithole country fighting an existential war as an enemy propagandist is just unbelievably stupid. Even in the most ‘civilized’ Western countries that aren’t directly at war with Russia Lira’s behavior wouldn’t be tolerated (see the treatment of Russia Today in recent years), and Ukraine isn’t in that group.

It's not fighting an existential war, it's fighting a proxy war on behalf of western powers.

Going to an extremely corrupt shithole country fighting an existential war as an enemy propagandist is just unbelievably stupid.

It would be stupid if GL thought it was safe, but he was well aware of the danger. You can call it foolish/self sacrificing deed if you wish, but not dumb.