This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The outcome of the chaos of the 70s and the 80s liberalization under Reagan, Thatcher etc was that the PMC essentially established a happy ‘equilibrium’ of free markets, higher-than-before inequality, well paid white collar jobs, cheap blue collar labor, high levels of outsourcing and offshoring for non-credentialed labor, cheap borrowing and rising asset prices (benefiting above all homeowners and those with equity portfolios).
The problem is that a lot of ‘woke’ does directly destabilize that lifestyle. The cities into which the PMC poured as crime rates fell in the 90s become once again dangerous and high-crime shitholes, extreme DEI stuff threatens them at work, the mob’s demands eventually become less and less easy to placate. Most dangerously of all, the era of comfortable political ‘moderates’ who do nothing to upset the status quo too much appears likely to draw to a close, presaging an unpalatable choice between far left (economic defeat) and far right (cultural defeat).
Far better, in such an environment, to make a few concessions. Of course, some would say that was Moldbug’s game all along.
I don't see how woke meaningfully threatens that equilibrium. More well-paid white collar jobs in the form of DEI officials. Cheap blue collar labour from mass immigration. To the extent that they have a position on the issue, they seem to not mind firing up the money printers and not doing anything to counter it with interest rates, so cheap borrowing and rising asset prices.
This only kicks the can down the road, though. Whites can squeeze out one extra generation of PMC jobbing by jobbing specifically as agitators for their own replacement, but when their children come up against a hiring agent thoroughly steeped in the parents' propaganda, there'll be no cushy jobs for John Jr.
Well, they’re below replacement rate on that, too. Something about their parents poisoning the well for the future and then peace-ing out is their standard excuse for not doing so; assuming they’re correct about that, well, apple didn’t fall far from the tree in those cases.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
From where? The suburbs? Small towns? Are you referring to all the normally childless hipsters and other white PMC who usually move into gentrifying urban areas?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link