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PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   27235 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 11, 2023

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American teachers have their own classroom(?) instead of it being the room for a specific year(?)

American teachers generally have their own rooms, but they are assigned each year. Though in practice usually it is the same room every year, unless something changes.

and so they get to decorate it like it's their own personal space(?)

They can decorate it as they wish, unless a rule prohibits certain types of items. Most districts require even-handed treatment of controversial issues, so the Israeli flag probably was not kosher, no pun intended.

not a teacher deciding to bring in their toys and hobbies to plaster all over the walls.

What is wrong with that? All else being equal, a teacher who is seen by students as an individual human being, rather than as a bureaucrat, will likely be more effective on many dimensions.

All else being equal, a teacher who is seen by students as an individual human being, rather than as a bureaucrat, will likely be more effective on many dimensions.

This is a popular narrative that people in education, especially teachers, like to push (at least from my experience as a student), and as a result, plenty of former-students (i.e. almost everyone in the West) also seem to believe it, but I'm skeptical. Have we ever done any studies measuring stuff like "how much does a teacher bringing their hobbies into the classroom affects how much students see them as an individual versus a bureaucrat?" or "how does the students' perception of the teacher as an individual versus a bureaucrat affect the effectiveness of the teacher in [important dimensions], whether it be positive or negative, and how much?" or "if a teacher bringing their hobbies into the classroom and that does increase how much students see them as individuals, then does that particular method of increasing how they see the teachers as individuals cause an increase in effectiveness of the teacher in [important dimensions]?"

Given how convenient this narrative is for the teachers who tend to push it - how nice it is that bringing things I like into my workplace also makes me better at my work! - I think there should be a pretty high bar of evidence for this, to rise above the default presumption that it's a narrative that's just too convenient not to believe.

I think there should be a pretty high bar of evidence for this,

Why, if it does no harm? If a teacher has a pennant of his favorite sports team, or a picture of his family, etc. etc, what possible harm could that do? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on those who seek to bar such displays?

Why, if it does no harm?

The harm is the complexity of creating a policy that allows innocuous things but does not permit obnoxious or offensive things. The bureaucratic burden of having to decide that, say, posting pictures of a ski trip is fine, but posting pictures of a religious retreat is not, pictures of political protesting, or posting pictures of a gay wedding reception - it's all just so tiresome. It's a given that there are people who constantly push the limits of any policy in an obnoxious way, so it's entirely reasonable to set a simple bright-line rule that veers widely on the side of inoffensiveness.

And yet somehow thousands of schools manage to negotiate that ostensible labyrinth with little trouble.

Presumably those schools have fewer people trying to push the limits of the policy.

You can't assume that teachers are going to follow these policies in good faith, which is why we can't have nice things.

Fewer than what? When I said "thousands of schools manage to negotiate that ostensible labyrinth with little trouble," I meant virtually every school allows teachers to decorate their rooms as they see fit, as long as they don't violate controversial issues policies or include decorations that are inappropriate for children somehow. You are making a claim based on zero evidence of what constitutes the norm.

To rephrase: Thousands of schools manage to do it because the teachers in them are acting in good faith and aren't trying to push the limits. That doesn't prevent problems in other schools where the teachers are trying to push the limits.

No one claims there are no problems. I have seen such problems myself. But the claim that a blanket ban on all displays is necessary to address those problems is a claim that is not supported by any evidence.

How do you know the schools are successfully navigating it, rather than the controversial nature of said decorations just being hidden from parents, or schools just ignoring complaints?

Experience.

More importantly, the burden of proof is on schools to justify limitations on the personal liberty of their employees. So the burden lies on OP to show that the problem exists, not on me or anyone else to show that the problem does not exist.

More comments

I'm not talking about policy. Merely believing whether or not that the narrative is true. I agree, it's one of those things, like food that FDA categorizes as Generally Recognized As Safe, that we have enough anecdotal evidence that they're not harmful that we don't have to prove it more rigorously. But the narrative isn't about harm.

I'm not talking about policy.

But OP was.

What is wrong with that? All else being equal, a teacher who is seen by students as an individual human being, rather than as a bureaucrat, will likely be more effective on many dimensions.

Because your teacher is not your pal or your buddy, and why should you have to pretend to be interested in their skiing trips or collection of Funkopops? They are there to teach you, you are there to learn (we hope) and you don't have to know all about their home and personal life outside of school to do that.

Regarding them as a human being is no harm, but I think it's just as likely students will think that stuff is lame or boring, or that the teacher is trying to impose it on them, as it is to make them go "Wow Mx. Futterperson is a real genuine human just like me, not a robot!"

If the classroom is all decked out like Mx. Futterperson's living room, then the teacher has no right to be surprised when the kids treat it like a living room in their home, and play on their phones/get up and walk around/talk to each other/don't pay attention.

why should you have to pretend to be interested in their skiing trips or collection of Funkopops?

Who said anything about anyone having to pretend to be interested?

I think it's just as likely students will think that stuff is lame

Which is of course the default attitude of students towards teachers. which is absolutely fine. It isn't about trying to prove to the students that the teacher is "cool." It is trying to show that he is not a mere functionary.

then the teacher has no right to be surprised when the kids treat it like a living room in their home, and play on their phones/get up and walk around/talk to each other/don't pay attention.

  1. There is a big difference between having some personal items and "being decked out like a living room."
  2. And you have evidence that that is the case? Because in my experience, the opposite it true.

Who said anything about anyone having to pretend to be interested?

You think the average 14-15 year old really would be interested in boring old Teacher's holiday on the slopes? Even if they are themselves interested in the topic?

I could, at a stretch, imagine 12 year olds listening to Mx. Futterperson telling them all about their ski trip, or maybe 18 year olds when they're old enough to go on ski trips of their own, but in the interval?

Well, perhaps you know more Cool Teachers or well-behaved kids than I do! 😁

Again, who said anything about students being interested? Or about the teachers telling stories of their ski trip? We are talking only about classrooom decorations.

And, we also are not talking about "cool teachers."

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