site banner
PaperclipPerfector  11mo ago (text post)   27876 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

our own @KulakRevolt found as he went from no public presence to being the rising voice of the burn-it-down ethos in a matter of a few months of well-written diatribes

Yeah, I too am surprised how quickly he managed to become a semi notable figure...

Makes one think about their own options if the day job doesn't work out, although I really don't think western conservatives would at all like what I have to peddle...

Most journalists for reputable broadsheet newspapers write worse than most people here. Do you read Janan Ganesh in the FT? I always think he sounds like the kind of person to post here, although he’s too politically boring to, and he writes better than any other columnist there or in The Telegraph.

But that’s really to do with @TracingWoodgrains ‘ point. It’s not a lack of sympathetic human capital so much as sympathetic human capital deployed in a way which ensures culture war defeat.

Janan Ganesh in the FT

Of course, he's one of the best writers there and crucially isn't a one trick pony either, he seems to be well read in the way that a good newspaper columnist should be.

I'm too stingy to pay for an actual subscription (the Chrome extension BypassPaywalls is excellent, you'll have to get it from GitHub since of course the Chrome store doesn't allow it; pity it doesn't work on TheTimes since they moved over to a hard paywall) so don't have an account there but if I did he would be one of the people I'd subscribe to on myFT on day 1.

I use paywall bypass but get the FT comped (my MD was actually surprised at this, but I haven't been called out by the HR goons for it yet). Much like a certain Citigroup banker with an appetite for sandwiches, I'll let you know if I get fired for it.

Where is KulakRevolt famous? A Google search turns up very little.

This is him: https://substack.com/@anarchonomicon (side note: tf when no blonde Rhodesian gf), he has gotten the "Bestseller" tag on Substack which means he has hundreds of paying subscribers.

Where is KulakRevolt famous? A Google search turns up very little.

One-tiny-part-of-the-internet famous. He runs a twitter account with readership in line with a second tier NRx/DR figure. (One quarter the followers of BronzeAgePervert, half that of Steve Sailer, slightly more then FistedByFoucault or Whatifalthist.) He mostly posts threads about how the civil rights act destroyed America.

"Famous" is overselling it, but he's glowed up from being a regular on the motte. Spending time here is likely a waste for him in terms of reach.

Spending time here is likely a waste for him in terms of reach.

It's not like it's all that productive for the rest of us.

It does let him refine his arguments before he posts about race on twitter again.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats