naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
13340 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #3
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
Wow. This is, I think, the first time that I realised you're not Jewish.
I do not think either side has especially-clean hands. Technically I think you could put me on the "pro-Palestine" side insofar as I think current US policy is too pro-Israel, but my real position is "Israel is strategically a bad ally because it commits the USA to some degree of hostility with the Muslim world (also it sells US technology to the PRC), and it's not remotely innocent or poor enough to deserve military aid on a moral level, so the USA should yank its continual and large military aid to Israel".
It should be noted that despite everything the angry students of the counterculture have accomplished, they have never managed to actually turn off that tap. It really does raise some uncomfortable questions when they can do all sorts of obviously-insane shit elsewhere but on this one issue the counterculture-ascendant can't even stop the USA spending tax dollars in the opposite direction. I'm not with @SecureSignals all the way; not all Jews are Zionists (I'm part Ashkenazi, although not a large part), the rest of the West doesn't do this, and buying one issue is not the same as controlling the entire USG (US policy on patents and copyrights has notoriously been bought out for significant amounts of time by interested companies, including diplomatic efforts to push policy into other countries, although even there it's not quite as consistent as this one). But there's a kernel of truth there; AIPAC, the ADL, and other Zionists really do have a concerning amount of power to control US Near East policy like that, and while of course I'm not in solidarity with "gas the Jews" rhetoric it's not entirely obvious that pointing the Eye of Sauron at US Zionism is a net-negative in utility (to be clear, this is contingent on this not actually turning into real pogroms; SJ is a movement that has rather a hard time stopping at a reasonable place, which is why I'm not making the "net-positive" claim).
magic9mushroom
If you're going to downvote me, and nobody's already voiced your objection, please reply and tell me
ymeskhout 1yr ago·Edited 1yr ago
...how? what?
Your name is obviously not Western or Far Eastern, a lot of Rats are Jewish, and I don't have a good-enough grasp of Jewish or Muslim naming systems to spot the difference by eye (at least without something obvious like an "een" or an "Abu" or an "Ali" or an "al-").
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Wow. This is, I think, the first time that I realised you're not Jewish.
I do not think either side has especially-clean hands. Technically I think you could put me on the "pro-Palestine" side insofar as I think current US policy is too pro-Israel, but my real position is "Israel is strategically a bad ally because it commits the USA to some degree of hostility with the Muslim world (also it sells US technology to the PRC), and it's not remotely innocent or poor enough to deserve military aid on a moral level, so the USA should yank its continual and large military aid to Israel".
It should be noted that despite everything the angry students of the counterculture have accomplished, they have never managed to actually turn off that tap. It really does raise some uncomfortable questions when they can do all sorts of obviously-insane shit elsewhere but on this one issue the counterculture-ascendant can't even stop the USA spending tax dollars in the opposite direction. I'm not with @SecureSignals all the way; not all Jews are Zionists (I'm part Ashkenazi, although not a large part), the rest of the West doesn't do this, and buying one issue is not the same as controlling the entire USG (US policy on patents and copyrights has notoriously been bought out for significant amounts of time by interested companies, including diplomatic efforts to push policy into other countries, although even there it's not quite as consistent as this one). But there's a kernel of truth there; AIPAC, the ADL, and other Zionists really do have a concerning amount of power to control US Near East policy like that, and while of course I'm not in solidarity with "gas the Jews" rhetoric it's not entirely obvious that pointing the Eye of Sauron at US Zionism is a net-negative in utility (to be clear, this is contingent on this not actually turning into real pogroms; SJ is a movement that has rather a hard time stopping at a reasonable place, which is why I'm not making the "net-positive" claim).
...how? what?
Neither do I. Neither does anything I said preclude having a different opinion on how involved the US should be.
Your name is obviously not Western or Far Eastern, a lot of Rats are Jewish, and I don't have a good-enough grasp of Jewish or Muslim naming systems to spot the difference by eye (at least without something obvious like an "een" or an "Abu" or an "Ali" or an "al-").
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link