SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
No bio...
User ID: 853
I think a lot of Revisionists, sure, are highly invested in "the Germans were the good guys". But I do see the issue from a different perspective. Good and evil doesn't concern me as much as properly interpreting a very important yet very vulnerable system of control.
At the same time, the accusation that millions were tricked into gas chambers on the pretext of taking a shower does seem outright sensational and stands out among all of human history. It's a total outlier in all respects. I don't doubt the human capacity for murder, but Revisionists seek to invert the symbolic meaning of the gas chamber story- a mythos that forms the bedrock of slave morality becomes perhaps the greatest validation in history of antisemitic critique of Jewish behavior- their capacity for deception and exercising the levers of cultural power to manipulate collective consciousness for their own gain and at the huge expense of their outgroup. That's not slave morality, that's resisting a slave morality.
I have a lot of criticism of Revisionists. A lot of them genuinely do believe they are just "truth seekers" and aren't motivated by antisemitism. But challenging the Holocaust narrative is deeply and intrinsically antisemitic. The thing is those Revisionist critiques are true.
I think you understand why it seems like slave morality to me - so, why isnt it?
I don't understand at all why it would seem like slave morality to you, the Holocaust mythos is the bedrock of Western slave morality. Holocaust Revisionism is fundamentally a criticism of hegemonic Western slave morality, which is why it is treated so seriously by the powers that be. Foremost it's true- the Holocaust narrative itself is untenable in the long run. Millions of people were tricked into gas chambers on the pretext of taking a shower, then they were all gassed with an insecticide, cremated, and the ashes scattered so there are no actual remains left to corroborate those claims? And all of this escaped any concrete reference in the enormous body of documentary evidence? It's a ridiculous story that lacks even a remotely reasonable level of physical or documentary evidence to support it. Even Grok takes the Revisionist side of some central issues.
Holocaust Revisionism is necessary foremost because it's true, and because it's true it genuinely undermines the Western Slave morality that is predicated on it. Your notion that disbelieving the ridiculous story of millions murdered inside gas chambers disguised as shower rooms and then magically disappeared is supposed to be "slave morality" couldn't be further from the truth. The Holocaust is a mythos that elevates Jewish concentration camp inmates as the war's greatest victims and history's greatest heroes who demand eternal holy reverence and worship as representing resistance to European empire. The notion that disbelieving that narrative is slave morality is just ridiculous.
This is obviously-to-everyone not serious and edgy for its own sake, which he has done in many directions.
But it's not edgy at all. "I believe Raul Hilberg" is perfectly mainstream. He's trying to take a perfectly mainstream position and repackage it to pose as edgy when it's not edgy at all. So you have the mainstream position - Raul Hilberg, and what is presented as the edgy by the "moderate Holocaust denier." It's the same picture.
It wouldn't surprise me if Yarvin one day actually does take a "moderate Holocaust Denier" position something like "there was clearly a Genocide, but gas chambers disguised as shower rooms? Come on folks." But Yarvin and BAPs highly selective gullibility on the gas chamber story speaks volumes.
Disagree. The lead-up to WW2 turns into the "warning signs".
It's true that "this is like the lead-up to WWII" is often invoked, but that is always invoked as a nod to the Holocaust and genocide as a terminal impact of not following whatever foreign policy is advocated for by the person invoking this. The "warning sides" leading up to WWII invoked to justify things like the Iraq wars, war with Iran, etc. is always an invocation of the Holocaust mythos to justify aggression against somebody else.
Why? Whats the point of someone who believes the holocaust but rejects its moral lesson? It seems to me rather that if its really important to you to deny it, you kind of believe the lesson.
There are incredibly important lessons in the Holocaust mythos. The lessons surround extremely important topics like means and motives for pscyhological warfare, deception, the art of the Big Lie, the way that a religio-cultural narrative can shape not only the moral narrative of a society but radically change the genetic fabric of a civilization within a single generation. It's a hard lesson about a mode of racial aggression and conflict that is imperceptible to an average person who goes to watch Schindler's List in a theater and becomes profoundly moved.
It's not about rejecting the moral lessons of the Holocaust, which can be rejected independently, it's about the lessons learned from a critical analysis of how this modern-day Exodus myth became the bedrock of Western mythology and its moral compass snowballing into Civil Rights, Zionism, tolerance, racial diversity, mass immigration and genetic replacement, wokeism... Yarvin and BAP, with their highly selective gullibility, are gatekeeping those lessons from their audience.
BAPists are not taking the serial numbers off your stuff, they are reinterpreting the anti-american versions as being about the blue empire.
Yes, but blue empire is not explained by Winston Churchill it's explained by the Holocaust mythos. This is acknowledged by Douglas Murray, who admits that his chief concern with those like Daryl Cooper is not with Winston Churchill per se but it's with young right-wingers rejecting the moral lessons of the Holocaust.
So you have Douglas Murray saying we can't engage in WWII Revisionism because it would threaten to undermine the moral lessons of the Holocaust. Then you have the BAPists and Yarvin who engage in WWII Revisionism but stripped of criticism of the Holocaust mythos. So you have a false opposition, Douglas Murray and Yarvin may as well agree if they both affirm the foundational myth of Blue Empire.
Actually, funnily enough Yarvin just last week on Twitter called himself a Holocaust Denier because he believes Raul Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 million Jews killed in the Holocaust.
It’s not true that I’m not a Holocaust denier. I don’t believe six million died.
I’m a moderate Holocaust denier. I respect Raul Hilberg’s estimate of 5.1M, in his magisterial Destruction of the European Jews. Maybe 5.5M tops
This is reaching levels of "false opposition" on totally unprecedented levels, with Holocaust Believers trying to frame themselves as Deniers on the public stage. It's subversive.
The culpability of Winston Churchill to the outbreak of the conflict is totally irrelevant to the Western Psyche. So engaging in "WWII Revisionism" without critically engaging the Holocaust is a false opposition to the WWII mythos.
I personally know someone who believes a lot of things about WW2 are lies but not the holocaust, and is also antisemitic.
Many such cases, and the function of the "Daryl Cooper vs Douglas Murray" dialectic and the Yarvin "I'm a moderate Holocaust denier because I believe Raul Hilberg" is to keep it that way.
All Jews who do not denounce the Jewish race, Jewish behavior and any Jewish identity or culture with extreme fervour (Unz is, as far as I know, the only one to meet Fuentes’ standard) are the enemy.
Wow isn't it crazy that somebody would just outright demand that you denounce your racial identity if you want to be considered an ally? That must really be terrible. Jews would never do such a thing to Gentiles. /s
But your post is missing the most important bit of context, which is that both MartyrMade and Dave Smith were on Joe Rogan's show. This might on the surface appear shocking and scandalizing because WWII Revisionism and anti-Zionism are ostensibly being platformed on one of the most important shows in the world. But what Nick Fuentes and many others outside his orbit among the "anti-semitic Dissdent Right" are perceiving is heterodox political perspectives previously monopolized by the DR become appropriated and platformed but stripped of actual criticism of Jews.
Dave Smith and Douglas Murray argue over Israel, but the only thing they agree on is that antisemitism is the most evil thing in the world and Jews can never be criticized as such. This is significant because it follows the dialectical approach that antisemites allege is used to manufacture consensus. You don't maintain consensus on a topic like anti-semitism by just making the pro-Israel side win the debate. You do it by making sure that both the anti-Israel and pro-Israel positions are aligned on opposition to the Jewish Question. So these figures like Dave Smith coming to represent the "anti-Israel" side of the debate is, by their interpretation, a manifestation of the approach used to build consensus on something like the JQ. It's in other words a false opposition. A true opposition would be an anti-Israel perspective that is likewise critical of Jewish behavior as such, but that won't be represented in the public debate because it's supposed to be beyond debate.
With MartyrMade also renouncing the "JQ" it contextualizes the fact he was platformed. And likewise Curtis Yarvin, himself Jewish, also gets platformed as ostensibly the most edgy intellectual on the Internet. He has said, nearly exactly, "everything about WWII was a lie except the Holocaust." Oh really, everything was a lie except the abusrd story of millions being tricked into walking inside death showers? As a result, whether you are on the "most extreme" end of WWII Revisionism as represented by someone like Yarvin or MartyrMade, or on the most extreme end in the orthodox narrative, both sides agree on the critical aspects of the Holocaust narrative and the imperative to denounce the JQ.
Of course BAP is himself Jewish, and he was not upfront about that fact. He adopted a hyper "Bronze Age" and Aryan aesthetic and notably, as you mentioned, he is also essentially opposed to the JQ. It's reminiscent of the biblical story of Jacob putting on a disguise of hairy fur to trick his blind father Isaac into believing he was Esau. BAP, Jewish, presents as Aryan to acquire a certain audience but then is sure to steer his followers away from antisemitism.
The point being, the backlash against MartyrMade is not simply because some Twitter dude stepped out of line on the JQ, it's people like Fuentes correctly pointing out that these historical and social critiques of the WWII narrative and Zionism are being appropriated but stripped of any critical analysis pertaining to the JQ- so we are witnessing a new "boundary" in the debate on these topics but they remain a false opposition meant to protect a social consensus around the perception of Jews.
Another interesting shift is the left beginning to adopt the term "ZOG", which has long been a catchy phrase from the Far Right. The Grayzone Podcast, which is hosted by progressive Jews Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate, admitted that although they had always dismissed the term as being a ridiculous conspiracy theory, recent events have proven it to be true and they now use that term directly in their podcast.
The criticism of Israel simultaneously coming from the Left and Right from different angles is absolutely a catastrophe for Israel. Sheer hypocrisy makes no friends in the long run.
Pro-Israel Americans need a feasible game plan for dealing with this shift which doesn’t fall victim to the Streisand Effect.
It's too late, "pro-Israel America" made its own bed with its incessant hatred and abuse of its most important base of support in the entire world- White Americans. They had it perfect- they blew it, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory while they were holding all the cards. All they had to do was be benevolent towards their most important base but they couldn't do it.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
17d ago
Then why do you call me a Nazi? Because I have racial sensibilities that were shared by the vast majority of Americans before 1940? Because I support historical Revisionism? Why would that imply I adhere to one of the ideologies involved in the controversy?
I would expect others to throw that label around carelessly but it's strange coming from you.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
17d ago
It's a funny joke but really, they're not any more National Socialist than any normal European state was before WWII. They are quite different from historical Nazis.
The Chinese have essentially adopted fascism since the death of Mao. Certainly they are more fascist and National Socialist than any nation in Europe, so lauding the Chinese to spite those European "Nazis" is frankly ridiculous. Even your premise "The basic level of care for the ethnic majority is just what a state is supposed to do" you yourself seem to pattern-match as "Nazism" when Europeans advocate for that same premise.
But a few more iterations of low-IQ, smug WINNING and ROCKING THE BOAT, and who knows, they may have to pick up the crown tossed their way.
Don't know who you are talking about, I did not vote for Trump and I've criticized him, and I criticized his trade policy. I don't like low-IQ Magaism any more than you do and I don't want to see American imperial hegemony weakened.
Your culture is vulgar and plain bad, and you should feel bad about it.
Yes, I have plenty of criticisms of American and European culture. But you remind me of a lot of other people on the Right Wing who will go, "i.e. American culture is so bad, so I support Putin because only Russia can pose a real challenge to the degeneracy America is exporting around the world." They adopt the same tact in lionizing somebody like Assad, and they just project onto him this Resistance to American culture when it is no such thing- with no logical connection for how Putin or Assad or the Axis of Resistance are going to improve what are fundamentally cultural issues endemic to the United States and Europe.
A culture can change, certainly changing American and European culture is the highest priority. But none of my criticisms of American culture would drive me to support the Chinese.
And yet you run into the arms of National Socialism with Chinese Characteristics... No, Nazism is a dead political movement, not something to be treated as a cheap foreign import. I want to see something new, not trying to rehash a dead ideology, and certainly not turning traitor and running for the embrace of the Chinese who hold those same racial sensibilities you mock Europeans for, and which Europeans do not themselves actually hold.
You simultaneously mock Europeans for being "not capable of resisting a tiny tribe of natural wordcels" and for being parochial when they do voice resistance. You just hate Europeans, particularly the West Europeans, you see them as your enemy and you always have. It's unfortunate. Whatever you accuse me of, my hope for the future is fundamentally pro-European, I want the best for Europe and the United States and I do not want to see them under Chinese hegemony. That's not the future I wish for Russia either. You can mock the suicidal Nazis, I will mock the despondent Russian nationalists who have decided to become Chinese nationalists to have some sort of vent for their understandable but misguided hatred of Europe.
He's a spurned Russian nationalist who has run into the arms of the Chinese. A tragic outcome I don't wish of the Russians writ large. Being a serf isn't a problem so much as a traitor. Justifying that, welcoming the Chinese overlords, on the accusation of Europeans of being serfs is... interesting especially given this criticism is in context of the erratic behavior of high-agency people rocking the boat, like you said.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
22d ago
Of course rules are arbitrary, but when they are set they are predictable and so they can be anticipated and responded to by other actors. So far the US has adopted the "we'll lead by example and promote free trade even if our partners do not" approach. It's understandable why Trump wants to flex more American power, and a rules-based approach is the correct path, but the rule set here is asinine.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
22d ago
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a rules-based versus discretionary tariff policy. Making tariffs more of an a-personal "no hard feelings but this is what the equation says the tariff should be" is probably better than the politics that drive arbitrary levels of protectionism. Of course that relies on having a good rule, and the formula here makes no sense.
US Consumers enjoy an economy driven by both high consumption and high investment and low relative savings. That is enabled by trade deficits. It's going to be a major economic shift to pin tariffs against the trade deficit.
It seems to me a better rule would be "we reciprocate 2x tariffs that are placed on us, you need us more than we need you." Doing it against the trade deficit makes no sense. There is definitely going to be a pivot.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
It's not possible to have this conversation without information on the full distribution, so we could interrogate the question over what we would expect the distribution of the class should be.
Let's say average IQ of Whites is 100 with SD 15. So about 4.75% of whites have an IQ of at least 125.
Let's say average Jewish IQ is 110 with SD 15. Then about 15.87% of Jews have an IQ of at least 125.
But Whites are 60% of the population and Jews are about 2.4% of the population. So we expect there to be about 7.5 times the number of White applicants with an IQ at or above 125 compared to Jewish applicants. Instead the ratio is probably closer to 2 to 1 at best at Harvard. At Columbia, where there is now an investigation that is going to ultimately seek to boost the admission of Jews, Whites are only about 34% of the undergrad student body. If the Hillel number is even remotely approximate it suggests Jews outnumber non-Jewish white students.
You can dispute some of these numbers, i.e. if you choose 115 IQ despite the fact there's a bigger range in the literature, then about 25% of Jews would have an IQ of at least 125 and the ratio would be about 4.75. None of these numbers are close to the actual distribution at a place like Harvard or Columbia.
This isn't an end-all be-all analysis, but it's what you would have to do if you wanted to make the point you are trying to make. Just talking about average IQ is not sufficient for the point you are trying to make.
Ultimately though the point I am making is proven by the actions Columbia is taking, which are clearly intended to defend or improve the level of admission of Jewish students on political grounds.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
The pressure on Columbia is not insinuation, it is proof of unfairly prioritizing Jews. Not that even I'm clamoring for "fairness", which does not exist. It's a racial spoils system. It's incredibly naive to think it's about IQ and GPA.
So you concede the level of admissions of Latinos is due to race discrimination, as well as blacks, whites, and Asians. But they totally got it right with Jews, their representation is driven by merit unlike every single other group. Except we are now faced with a plain example of the sort of group organization, networking, and advocacy Jews have always done in promoting their own admission into these institutions.
Columbia's investigation it will be carrying out is about the admission of Jews and not the admission of Whites. If that investigation leads to an increase in the admission of Jews and a decline in the admission of White non-Jews would you also say that is just non-Jewish whites being outcompeted? Or would it be an example of exactly what drives the level of admission in every other ethnic group?
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
As The Guardian reported:
The OSP was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon's office in Israel specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam's Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise.
"None of the Israelis who came were cleared into the Pentagon through normal channels," said one source familiar with the visits. Instead, they were waved in on Mr Feith's authority without having to fill in the usual forms.
The exchange of information continued a long-standing relationship Mr Feith and other Washington neo-conservatives had with Israel's Likud party.
In 1996, he and Richard Perle - now an influential Pentagon figure - served as advisers to the then Likud leader, Binyamin Netanyahu. In a policy paper they wrote, entitled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, the two advisers said that Saddam would have to be destroyed, and Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran would have to be overthrown or destabilised, for Israel to be truly safe.
The Israeli influence was revealed most clearly by a story floated by unnamed senior US officials in the American press, suggesting the reason that no banned weapons had been found in Iraq was that they had been smuggled into Syria. Intelligence sources say that the story came from the office of the Israeli prime minister.
The OSP absorbed this heady brew of raw intelligence, rumour and plain disinformation and made it a "product", a prodigious stream of reports with a guaranteed readership in the White House. The primary customers were Mr Cheney, Mr Libby and their closest ideological ally on the national security council, Stephen Hadley, Condoleezza Rice's deputy.
In turn, they leaked some of the claims to the press, and used others as a stick with which to beat the CIA and the state department analysts, demanding they investigate the OSP leads
Douglas Feith, on whose authority the Israelis were cleared into the Pentagon, is a Zionist Jew who co-authored the Clean Break Memo as part of an advisory group directly to Netanyahu himself. The memo calls for removing Saddam as an important objective:
Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.
So you have Doug Feith working directly with the Likud party to provide plans for securing Israeli objectives in the Middle East. Then you get Doug Feith on the OSP, who laundered false Israeli intelligence from a clandestine office of the Israeli Prime Minister directly to the White House. Then you have Netanyahu himself giving a hard sell to the American Congress.
This is laughable, the WMD intelligence was laundered from Israel direct to the White House through a special office composed of ultra-Zionists. You can even watch Netanyahu give the hard sell directly to the American Congress on the Iraq War "taking out Saddam" in 2002! This is the exact same man influencing Trump by the way, who Trump considers to be America's greatest ally.
"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region. And I think that people sitting right next door in Iran will say... the time of such regimes, of such despots is gone." Netanyahu to the Congress in 2002.
This is the man who OUR AMERICAN CONGRESS gave 58 standing ovations in his Congressional visit last year. From Grok:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu received the most standing ovations in a single speech in U.S. Congressional history during his address to a joint session of Congress on July 24, 2024. According to reports, he was given 55 standing ovations throughout his one-hour speech, surpassing all previous records for a single address. This figure is notably higher than other historically significant speeches, such as those by Winston Churchill or previous addresses by Netanyahu himself.
Blacks are 14.5% of the American population, about equal to their 14% representation in the Harvard class of 2028. Likewise Latinos constitute 16% of the Harvard class compared to about 20% representation in the population.
Too bad Whites only have about a third of their population representation, giving them the worst representation among any other demographic. I guess blacks and Latinos are just outcompeting whites right?
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
Look, I'm a supporter of free speech as much as anybody but I'm not going to run into the buzzsaw that is the Jewish lobby. People who have been calling my fellow travellers anti-semitic nazis for years - decades, even - suddenly need my help?
It's not about helping it's about building bridges on important issues. A lot of left-wing commentators on X are sounding more Right Wing on the question of the Jewish lobby every single day.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
... Yes? I said I agree with you on the general principle we should revoke visas or permanent residency, IMO even revoke citizenship, of people who subvert the United States on behalf of foreign interests. So now we can move on to that question, right, after acknowledging we agree on the principle?
How exactly does protesting the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from Gaza threaten the United States?
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
Great! American visa policy should be based on the principle that visa or permanent residency approvals are intended to further the interests of Americans and the United States.
I entirely agree with this, but these people aren't being deported on behalf of the interests of the United States, they are being deported on behalf of the interests of Israel and the Jewish lobby. If you remember, it was only a few years ago mass riots and protests were permitted - under the Trump administration - against White Amerikkka. But once it's Israel being criticized it's an entirely different story.
SecureSignals
Training the Aryan LLM
1mo ago
Hillel reports that 22.8% of Columbia undergraduates are Jewish, by the way.
There will be no investigations regarding the decline of Gentile Whites at Harvard, who only make up 20% of the Harvard class of 2028 despite making up over 60% of the country. And despite being the people that actually founded the institution and the country in its entirety.
How did the people who founded these institutions get kicked out of them within a single generation? Hmmm, there will be no investigations there. Let's investigate why Columbia is only 22.8% Jewish, should be higher...
Columbia Student Hunted by ICE Sues to Prevent Deportation
A 21-year old, third year Columbia student is wanted by ICE. She's a legal permanent resident who has lived in the United States since she was 7 years old. This is different from the case of Mahmoud Khalil in very notable regards:
- Chung is herself Korean and not Arab like Mahmoud Khalil, there is no accusation that Chung herself "supports terrorism" which was the justification that was going around when Khalil was arrested.
- According to NYT the Trump administration justification is:
The Trump administration is arguing that her presence in the United States hinders the administration’s foreign policy agenda of halting the spread of antisemitism...
The involvement of federal prosecutors was particularly notable. According to Ms. Chung’s lawsuit, agents apparently seeking her searched two residences on the Columbia campus with warrants that cited a criminal law known as the harboring statute, aimed at those who give shelter to noncitizens present in the United States illegally.
That signaled that the searches were related to a broader criminal investigation by federal prosecutors into Columbia University. Todd Blanche, the deputy attorney general, has said that the school is under investigation “for harboring and concealing illegal aliens on its campus.”
- So the arrest/deportation order is based on the accusation of antisemitism and not support for terrorism. If you are wondering what Chung did that the US government would consider antisemitic- the DHS and United States has adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's working definition of Antisemitism.
- There is no accusation that Chung organized the protests or was a leader of the protests in any form, and did not speak to reporters, she was merely a participant.
As someone who has been very aware of the growing body of European hate speech laws making antisemitism illegal, and the regulatory and legal tactics which are being pursued to tacitly put Americans under the same rules, even I underestimated the extent to which antisemitism would be overtly criminalized in the United States. Although I warned of the US adopting the IHRA definition of anti-semitism years ago on TheMotte, even at the time I didn't think it would form the basis for arresting protestors.
I don't think the Sanders-style socialist talking points are going to activate the suburban college-educated voters (who are going to increasingly come from the younger generation). It's old stuff, every Gen Z voter supporting Trump has heard it all before. Sanders says the exact same thing every speech. It's not going to cause a generational shift.
Dems have lost much of the comparative advantage against right-wing populism, compared to the former state of Republicans adopting strict free-market liberalism. They aren't going to have a monopoly on economic populism any more.
It needs to be something new and I am not sure the left is capable of generating anything new at this point. The Right Wing has soooo much greenspace in comparison.
The "4d chess" interpretation of the Trump administration's policy is that they are leveraging a forcing function for greater European integration and remilitarization which are both good things. The thing is the "4d chess" hypothesis for explaining Trump's behavior has been wrong every time. This is also revealed by the Signal leaks which reveal Vance's genuine distaste for defending European interests.
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