naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
30315 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I've been thinking that something like this would work as a solution for the Israelis. Once Gaza is an independent state, Israel can justifiably fortify their side of the border as much as they like. After all, their neighbour is aggressing them. Nobody can accuse them of apartheid (with regards to Gaza) since they have no obligation to allow foreign citizens to enter their territory at all. If the government of Gaza attacks them, they can justifiably use force to defend themselves. Egypt can take refugees without being accused of being complicit in Israeli ethnic cleansing of the strip.
I mean, it's not as if Gaza has any religious significance (like Jerusalem), strategic significance (like the Golan Heights) or economic significance (like Tel Aviv). An Israel without Gaza is an Israel with 2 millions fewer Arabs and nothing of value lost.
You realize that Israel left Gaza in 2005, right? The Palestinian Authority held elections in 2006, and Hamas won. Fatah did not accept the results, and they split to Hamas ruling the Gaza strip while Fatah rules Judea and Samaria (where they are allowed according to Oslo). Hamas did not declare an independent state, since that’s not what they’re after. Israel did fortify itself, and after rocket fire started from Gaza it was blockaded. There were roughly 0 voices saying Israel is justified in anything.
This is basically where we are now, 17 years later.
This is the situation since 2007. And the government of Gaza has just attacked them. Well, in fact it's been attacking them all along, but this time it was a much bigger attack than usual.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I've been thinking that something like this would work as a solution for the Israelis. Once Gaza is an independent state, Israel can justifiably fortify their side of the border as much as they like. After all, their neighbour is aggressing them. Nobody can accuse them of apartheid (with regards to Gaza) since they have no obligation to allow foreign citizens to enter their territory at all. If the government of Gaza attacks them, they can justifiably use force to defend themselves. Egypt can take refugees without being accused of being complicit in Israeli ethnic cleansing of the strip.
I mean, it's not as if Gaza has any religious significance (like Jerusalem), strategic significance (like the Golan Heights) or economic significance (like Tel Aviv). An Israel without Gaza is an Israel with 2 millions fewer Arabs and nothing of value lost.
You know the rockets are usually coming out of those Gaza borders, right?
More options
Context Copy link
You realize that Israel left Gaza in 2005, right? The Palestinian Authority held elections in 2006, and Hamas won. Fatah did not accept the results, and they split to Hamas ruling the Gaza strip while Fatah rules Judea and Samaria (where they are allowed according to Oslo). Hamas did not declare an independent state, since that’s not what they’re after. Israel did fortify itself, and after rocket fire started from Gaza it was blockaded. There were roughly 0 voices saying Israel is justified in anything.
This is basically where we are now, 17 years later.
More options
Context Copy link
This is the situation since 2007. And the government of Gaza has just attacked them. Well, in fact it's been attacking them all along, but this time it was a much bigger attack than usual.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link