naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Yeah they launched some initial raids after their evacuation notice last week and I thought a full assault wouldn't be too far behind. I know there were reports that they were delaying it due to the weather. Perhaps it is taking longer than they anticipated to reactivate their reservists and get them into position? Speed isn't as essential in this case from a tactical standpoint, but I do think the window is closing on the time when the world will turn more of a blind eye to any collateral damage they might inflict.
I have also come across a bit of speculation that IDF leadership knows that this will turn into a massive bloodbath and fiasco and they are delaying against the wishes of the politicians and trying to work out alternatives to an invasion. Sounds like a sensible scenario to me.
The whole of Israel knows that they will be blamed for everything that happens. A fat guy has a heart attack 12 miles from a place the IDF conducted a raid. Israels fault. Etc. Hamas houses most of its weapons and operatives in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc. So its basically a long debate for the IDF whether they want to be even mildly effective in their response and have to defend themselves in front of antisemites at the Hague, or if there is another means of resolving the situation.
If this was 1833, there wouldn't be a single Gazan alive by Christmas. And this would be just.
IGI-111
God was a dream of good government.
anti_dan 1yr ago
But this isn't 1833. And I don't mean in the sense of the moral fads turning sour on military might, I mean in the sense that we have explosives and small arms that make urban combat, even with air support and artillery, a protracted gruesome horror for everyone involved.
Blood feuds have a way of hardening the heart, but I would be surprised if the IDF is cheery at the perspective of getting shot at from a million angles, dodging VBIEDs, collapsing buildings and your own ordinance to the tune of screams of women and children getting melted alive by Willie Pete.
You stated a lot of reasons it should be easier for Israel to be rid of Gaza permanently. Their ability to do what Rome did to Carthage is orders of magnitude greater.
Do they need "boots on the ground" in that sort of conflict though? Couldn't they just bomb and shell every square foot until there's effectively no one and nothing left? Of course, it isn't that sort of conflict (yet).
Again, If it were me I'd declare a siege, cut the water, cut the power, mine the harbor. Seige ends when all the hostages have been safely returned.
And pictures of poor starving Palestinian babies are show on the news channels in the US and Europe every night, and there's trade sanctions and the US cuts off military aid.
You say that, and I say that, but the media won't say that and the normies don't think that way (unless they're told to). They'll see starving Palestinian babies, be told Israel is causing it, and blame Israel. If you give them a reason Israel is causing it, they'll tell you the babies aren't responsible and how can you punish them for the sins of Hamas, you monster. They'll point out that most Palestinians really don't have any control over Hamas (eliding the point that most of them would not act differently if they could). And if you argue more it'll just be Israel! Starving! Babies!
Oh, and if you point out the pictures of starving babies are actually from a 1972 Sally Struthers commercial, they'll call you a liar and a monster and stop speaking with you.
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Notes -
Yeah they launched some initial raids after their evacuation notice last week and I thought a full assault wouldn't be too far behind. I know there were reports that they were delaying it due to the weather. Perhaps it is taking longer than they anticipated to reactivate their reservists and get them into position? Speed isn't as essential in this case from a tactical standpoint, but I do think the window is closing on the time when the world will turn more of a blind eye to any collateral damage they might inflict.
I have also come across a bit of speculation that IDF leadership knows that this will turn into a massive bloodbath and fiasco and they are delaying against the wishes of the politicians and trying to work out alternatives to an invasion. Sounds like a sensible scenario to me.
The whole of Israel knows that they will be blamed for everything that happens. A fat guy has a heart attack 12 miles from a place the IDF conducted a raid. Israels fault. Etc. Hamas houses most of its weapons and operatives in schools, mosques, hospitals, etc. So its basically a long debate for the IDF whether they want to be even mildly effective in their response and have to defend themselves in front of antisemites at the Hague, or if there is another means of resolving the situation.
If this was 1833, there wouldn't be a single Gazan alive by Christmas. And this would be just.
But this isn't 1833. And I don't mean in the sense of the moral fads turning sour on military might, I mean in the sense that we have explosives and small arms that make urban combat, even with air support and artillery, a protracted gruesome horror for everyone involved.
Blood feuds have a way of hardening the heart, but I would be surprised if the IDF is cheery at the perspective of getting shot at from a million angles, dodging VBIEDs, collapsing buildings and your own ordinance to the tune of screams of women and children getting melted alive by Willie Pete.
You stated a lot of reasons it should be easier for Israel to be rid of Gaza permanently. Their ability to do what Rome did to Carthage is orders of magnitude greater.
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Do they need "boots on the ground" in that sort of conflict though? Couldn't they just bomb and shell every square foot until there's effectively no one and nothing left? Of course, it isn't that sort of conflict (yet).
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Again, If it were me I'd declare a siege, cut the water, cut the power, mine the harbor. Seige ends when all the hostages have been safely returned.
And pictures of poor starving Palestinian babies are show on the news channels in the US and Europe every night, and there's trade sanctions and the US cuts off military aid.
What of them?
The Palestinians could end their suffering at any time by releasing the Hostages.
You say that, and I say that, but the media won't say that and the normies don't think that way (unless they're told to). They'll see starving Palestinian babies, be told Israel is causing it, and blame Israel. If you give them a reason Israel is causing it, they'll tell you the babies aren't responsible and how can you punish them for the sins of Hamas, you monster. They'll point out that most Palestinians really don't have any control over Hamas (eliding the point that most of them would not act differently if they could). And if you argue more it'll just be Israel! Starving! Babies!
Oh, and if you point out the pictures of starving babies are actually from a 1972 Sally Struthers commercial, they'll call you a liar and a monster and stop speaking with you.
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