naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
29553 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Yeah, he signed off on it about a week beforehand, and was clearly on board.
See also the “Early Showa period” section of this article. He was actively involved in managing war plans, though surely not to the extent of Hitler or Mussolini.
After the bombs his answer to the question ‘what if they refuse to keep you as emperor, will we fight on? ‘ was ‘of course’. I always have to think of this ridiculous man when people talk of the mythical ‘noblesse oblige’. Here was a man considered a god, whose subjects were killing themselves and others by the millions for him, who could not even take one ounce of responsibility – think of others for one second. Had he never heard of suicide?
It’s human I guess – if you tell a man he is noble, he is godly, he will believe it – and question his actions even less than he would have otherwise. His instinct will never be to turn towards the ragged masses and ‘give back’ (As far as he knows, he did not receive anything from them, so he couldn’t anyway) or sacrifice anything. These strictly hierarchical relationships are purely one-way.
Ever notice that, as, you rise through a company , both your salary and the respect you’re getting increase simultaneously ? It’s not like your superiors help you more when you take out the trash because noblesse oblige. It’s not complicated, the lower on the layer cake you are, the more shit you take. And Mr. Hito was never taking and always giving.
Because to a monarchist, the king or emperor is not the same as a CEO. They are, literally, the soul of the country. Even if many Japanese people die, as long as the emperor is in place Japan remains. So ‘the emperor should step down for the sake of the people’ is nonsensical, it’s saying that you should accept absolute defeat in exchange for not-absolute defeat.
As @dr_analog notes, this is how you manage to make huge changes to the culture of the country without mass uprisings. The emperor is still in place and has publicly given his assent to the new direction. There is continuity in the most visible way. Japan is still Japan.
Obvious solution to maintain the institution while holding the man responsible is suicide. Beyond the man, I woud question why such an institution who failed and was largely responsible for the militaristic and anti-democratic turn of japan should have been maintained in the first place. They made liars of “unconditional surrender’ to maintain this joke of an institution. I’m sure a continuation of the nazi party in germany would have done wonders at stability and limiting riots and such, but hey, they’re the ones who made a mess of it all in the first place, and so did he.
And yet it worked, and it still works. Whereas they got rid of the Kaiser and twenty years later we had the Third Reich.
I don’t claim to be able to read alternate timelines but if America stopped insisting on total regime change every time they went to war their record might look a lot more successful.
Aside from the utilitarian benefit of his staying, which i would dispute on second-order effects, fruits of a poisonous tree or something, it just bothers me that this weasel got away with it while his underlings went to the gallows/seppuku'd.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah, he signed off on it about a week beforehand, and was clearly on board.
See also the “Early Showa period” section of this article. He was actively involved in managing war plans, though surely not to the extent of Hitler or Mussolini.
After the bombs his answer to the question ‘what if they refuse to keep you as emperor, will we fight on? ‘ was ‘of course’. I always have to think of this ridiculous man when people talk of the mythical ‘noblesse oblige’. Here was a man considered a god, whose subjects were killing themselves and others by the millions for him, who could not even take one ounce of responsibility – think of others for one second. Had he never heard of suicide?
It’s human I guess – if you tell a man he is noble, he is godly, he will believe it – and question his actions even less than he would have otherwise. His instinct will never be to turn towards the ragged masses and ‘give back’ (As far as he knows, he did not receive anything from them, so he couldn’t anyway) or sacrifice anything. These strictly hierarchical relationships are purely one-way.
Ever notice that, as, you rise through a company , both your salary and the respect you’re getting increase simultaneously ? It’s not like your superiors help you more when you take out the trash because noblesse oblige. It’s not complicated, the lower on the layer cake you are, the more shit you take. And Mr. Hito was never taking and always giving.
Because to a monarchist, the king or emperor is not the same as a CEO. They are, literally, the soul of the country. Even if many Japanese people die, as long as the emperor is in place Japan remains. So ‘the emperor should step down for the sake of the people’ is nonsensical, it’s saying that you should accept absolute defeat in exchange for not-absolute defeat.
As @dr_analog notes, this is how you manage to make huge changes to the culture of the country without mass uprisings. The emperor is still in place and has publicly given his assent to the new direction. There is continuity in the most visible way. Japan is still Japan.
Obvious solution to maintain the institution while holding the man responsible is suicide. Beyond the man, I woud question why such an institution who failed and was largely responsible for the militaristic and anti-democratic turn of japan should have been maintained in the first place. They made liars of “unconditional surrender’ to maintain this joke of an institution. I’m sure a continuation of the nazi party in germany would have done wonders at stability and limiting riots and such, but hey, they’re the ones who made a mess of it all in the first place, and so did he.
And yet it worked, and it still works. Whereas they got rid of the Kaiser and twenty years later we had the Third Reich.
I don’t claim to be able to read alternate timelines but if America stopped insisting on total regime change every time they went to war their record might look a lot more successful.
Aside from the utilitarian benefit of his staying, which i would dispute on second-order effects, fruits of a poisonous tree or something, it just bothers me that this weasel got away with it while his underlings went to the gallows/seppuku'd.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link